I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
110 posts • Page 6 of 81 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby DRuss » 25 Apr 2014, 14:01

jennabet wrote:Except perhaps when you use the National Health Care system in Italy and find your doctors "puzzled" enough to ask about your heritage (for medical purposes, of course) because you don't look Italian or have an Italian name. What then? Will you say they're "bitter" as well? Or might you just try to sue them, per the good, old American solution for everything?


More misinformed rubbish. Italian healthcare cards don't give any indication of the holder's citizenship. Nor do drivers' licenses. In addition, plenty of foreign citizens live in Italy and are members of the national healthcare system.

None of the Italians I've ever met have a problem with foreigners living in their country. It's only you... Many of my Italian friends even encouraged me to take citizenship.
DRuss
Rookie
Rookie
 
Posts: 29
Joined: 25 Apr 2014, 01:41

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby jennabet » 25 Apr 2014, 14:12

No, YOU are the one who is mis-informed. Carta d'Identita has citizenship status and marital status. No one gets on the health care roles without an ID card. All information on ID card is transferred to the health service. The doctor brings up your records and it's all there for them to see, including your citizenship.
jennabet
Master
Master
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 14 Jul 2010, 20:28
Location: Ancestral Homeland - Abruzzo Italy

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby DRuss » 25 Apr 2014, 14:24

jennabet wrote:No, YOU are the one who is mis-informed. Carta d'Identita has citizenship status and marital status. No one gets on the health care roles without an ID card. All information on ID card is transferred to the health service. The doctor brings up your records and it's all there for them to see, including your citizenship.


Sorry, but you are wrong. Doctors see only the details that are printed on the card. I.e. date and place of birth, fiscal code, expiry date, etc. Citizenship and residence information is not visible to them.
DRuss
Rookie
Rookie
 
Posts: 29
Joined: 25 Apr 2014, 01:41

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby jennabet » 25 Apr 2014, 14:44

Forget about the "card". Once you have registered with ASL, your information is permanently stored, including residency and citizenship. Your doctor doesn't see a card at all. He sees the same thing ASL has in it's record about you, including residency and citizenship. No one gets on the health system without residency. You don't know what you're talking about.
jennabet
Master
Master
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 14 Jul 2010, 20:28
Location: Ancestral Homeland - Abruzzo Italy

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby DRuss » 25 Apr 2014, 14:50

jennabet wrote:Forget about the "card". Once you have registered with ASL, your information is permanently stored, including residency and citizenship. Your doctor doesn't see a card at all. He sees the same thing ASL has in it's record about you, including residency and citizenship. No one gets on the health system without residency. You don't know what you're talking about.


You are only showing your limited knowledge of the system. I am a doctor, and I've worked in the Italian system. It's correct that the information is stored with the ASL, but doctors don't have access to all of it.
DRuss
Rookie
Rookie
 
Posts: 29
Joined: 25 Apr 2014, 01:41

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby jennabet » 25 Apr 2014, 14:59

You're not an Italian doctor and you obviously don't know how the health system operates in Italy.
I have been using this system for 14 years.
jennabet
Master
Master
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 14 Jul 2010, 20:28
Location: Ancestral Homeland - Abruzzo Italy

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby DRuss » 25 Apr 2014, 15:07

jennabet wrote:You're not an Italian doctor and you obviously don't know how the health system operates in Italy.
I have been using this system for 14 years.


Thank you for the clarification. I'll assume that in those 14 years, you've never been in the Doctor's seat. If someone asked about your family history, it was likely because they noticed you had an Italian-sounding name and that your place of birth (as per your fiscal code) is not in Italy.

Also, I find your suggestion that doctors would provide substandard treatment to a patient because of their origins or citizenship quite disgusting, to be honest. As I wrote in my first post - you demonstrate a lot of unwarranted bitterness which I find very unbefitting of Italians.
DRuss
Rookie
Rookie
 
Posts: 29
Joined: 25 Apr 2014, 01:41

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby jennabet » 25 Apr 2014, 15:10

By way way, "Doctor", since residency is not required, why is it that when the ambulance responds to your house in Italy, the first question they ask is if you have residency and to prove it with your ID card? Why is that, "Doctor". Please advise.
jennabet
Master
Master
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 14 Jul 2010, 20:28
Location: Ancestral Homeland - Abruzzo Italy

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby jennabet » 25 Apr 2014, 15:14

DRuss wrote:
jennabet wrote:You're not an Italian doctor and you obviously don't know how the health system operates in Italy.
I have been using this system for 14 years.


Thank you for the clarification. I'll assume that in those 14 years, you've never been in the Doctor's seat. If someone asked about your family history, it was likely because they noticed you had an Italian-sounding name and that your place of birth (as per your fiscal code) is not in Italy.

Also, I find your suggestion that doctors would provide substandard treatment to a patient because of their origins or citizenship quite disgusting, to be honest. As I wrote in my first post - you demonstrate a lot of unwarranted bitterness which I find very unbefitting of Italians.


I find it quite the opposite. Since genetics if the reason for everything, doctors in Italy can only provide the best care if they know your heritage. Unlike in the USA, thankfully, here in Italy we are not all lumped together as Americans, therefore we get the best care, with Italy coming in second next to Japan in health and wellness according to the Social Progress Index 2014.
jennabet
Master
Master
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 14 Jul 2010, 20:28
Location: Ancestral Homeland - Abruzzo Italy

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby DRuss » 25 Apr 2014, 15:16

jennabet wrote:By way way, "Doctor", since residency is not required, why is it that when the ambulance responds to your house in Italy, the first question they ask is if you have residency and to prove it with your ID card? Why is that, "Doctor". Please advise.


I never said that residency was not required. The only document you have to show is your health care card. Again, citizenship and residency data is not shown, only the expiry date. The card doesn't distinguish between permanent residents and citizens. Nor do drivers' licenses, which are also valid identification in Italy.
DRuss
Rookie
Rookie
 
Posts: 29
Joined: 25 Apr 2014, 01:41

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby jennabet » 25 Apr 2014, 15:19

DRuss wrote:
jennabet wrote:You're not an Italian doctor and you obviously don't know how the health system operates in Italy.
I have been using this system for 14 years.


Thank you for the clarification. I'll assume that in those 14 years, you've never been in the Doctor's seat. If someone asked about your family history, it was likely because they noticed you had an Italian-sounding name and that your place of birth (as per your fiscal code) is not in Italy.

Also, I find your suggestion that doctors would provide substandard treatment to a patient because of their origins or citizenship quite disgusting, to be honest. As I wrote in my first post - you demonstrate a lot of unwarranted bitterness which I find very unbefitting of Italians.


By the way, I happen to live in the region and province where ALL FOUR of my Italian grand-parents were born. And my doctors ALWAYS ask me about my family history. I'm glad they do and I'm proud to answer their questions.
jennabet
Master
Master
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 14 Jul 2010, 20:28
Location: Ancestral Homeland - Abruzzo Italy

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby jennabet » 25 Apr 2014, 15:23

DRuss wrote:
jennabet wrote:By way way, "Doctor", since residency is not required, why is it that when the ambulance responds to your house in Italy, the first question they ask is if you have residency and to prove it with your ID card? Why is that, "Doctor". Please advise.


I never said that residency was not required. The only document you have to show is your health care card. Again, citizenship and residency data is not shown, only the expiry date. The card doesn't distinguish between permanent residents and citizens. Nor do drivers' licenses, which are also valid identification in Italy.


No, you are again misinformed. You do not show any card at all to any doctor. The doctor already has all of your information. It was transferred to him by ASL, the department that made your appointment with the doctor. This is the same agency that registers you with the healthcare system. It takes all of the information from your ID card and transfers it to their database. Every doctor you see has access to the same data base. It's called socialized medicine. Of course, the ambulance attendants don't have this data base. That's why they ask you for the card when they respond to your call.
jennabet
Master
Master
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 14 Jul 2010, 20:28
Location: Ancestral Homeland - Abruzzo Italy

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby DRuss » 25 Apr 2014, 15:54

jennabet wrote:I find it quite the opposite. Since genetics if the reason for everything, doctors in Italy can only provide the best care if they know your heritage. Unlike in the USA, thankfully, here in Italy we are not all lumped together as Americans, therefore we get the best care, with Italy coming in second next to Japan in health and wellness according to the Social Progress Index 2014.

Nice. I'll leave that comment in the xenophobia bin. FYI Next time a doctor asks about your family history, they're looking for an indication of any hereditary conditions.

As for your previous comment - you're replying to something imaginary. You asked about paramedics so I gave you a response to that. I'm well aware of how the ASL works and which information is transmitted.

Here's the section on personal data from our MIS training manual: http://www.mediatec.it/helpv6/module_6.htm
And another one which we previously used: http://www.cbsistemi.it/wiki/doku.php?i ... l_paziente
You will notice that neither record the patient's citizenship.
DRuss
Rookie
Rookie
 
Posts: 29
Joined: 25 Apr 2014, 01:41

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby tuper16 » 25 Apr 2014, 16:05

DRuss wrote:hat discrimination was in fact REMOVED by Italian lawmakers, who wrote a new constitution in recognition of the birth of the Italian Republic in 1948.


Since the adoption of the Constitutional Court Rules No. 87/1975, 30/1983 and 81/1987, Italian women are fully able to transfer their citizenship to their descendants. After the irruption of this new constitutional jurisprudence, a new national law was adopted in order to incorporate the new constitutional reading (law No. 91/1992).

The Italian Supreme Court (Corte di Cassazione) also took into consideration this new constitutional interpretations, but in different and contradictory manners, until the adoption of the Rule No. 4466/2009. With the latter, the access to the Italian citizenship for those born before 01/01/1948 from an Italian mother was definitely recognised.

The reason why the latter jurisprudence is still not incorporated into the current law governing the citizenship is given by the same Italian government. In fact, the government defended its position by saying that this change would lead to a multiplication of claims by the descendants of Italian emigrated abroad.

As the same Supreme Court said, this line of argumentation could not justify the deprivation of effect, and the lack of implementation of the declaration of unconstitutionality made by the Constitutional Court. Otherwise, administrative reasons would deprive of effect and content to a right that has been constitutionally guaranteed.
tuper16
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 16
Joined: 17 Oct 2013, 09:43

Re: I Just Beat the 1948 Rule

Postby jennabet » 25 Apr 2014, 16:09

Italian healthcare is not free for legal residents who are not Italian citizens. Instead they must pay a yearly fee if they want to use ASL. So, of course, citizenship is recorded with ASL. Remember this is NOT the USA. Italian citizens are identified in Italy. Foreigners are also identified. My ID card has 16 fields of information about me. Field #13 is Citizenship, of which mine is marked ITA for Italian, of course. All of the information on this record is kept in the national health service data base and is transferred to whichever doctor you need to see, including your primary care physician.
jennabet
Master
Master
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 14 Jul 2010, 20:28
Location: Ancestral Homeland - Abruzzo Italy

PreviousNext

110 posts • Page 6 of 81 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

Return to Emigration, Immigration, Naturalization and Italian citizenship

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests

Copyright © 2014. www.ItalianGenealogy.com.