Citizenship

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Citizenship

Postby acamma » 28 Jan 2005, 20:51

All the recent questions and answers had me check with family on when my grandfather obtained his US citizenship ir reference to his children being born. No one remembers - I know where to call in the US on that issue but how do I find out if he basically cancelled his Italian citizenship as has been mentioned in recent posts when someone might seek their own Italian citizenship based on ancestors citizenship. Since my father was the first child I know I have a better chance than my other family members in that my grandfather was slow in pushing this type of paperwork. Would the Italian consulate be able to give me information on this or would I have to write to Rome. There are no records for my grandfather left with the family as he died in 1975
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Re: Citizenship

Postby JamesBianco » 28 Jan 2005, 20:57

acamma wrote:All the recent questions and answers had me check with family on when my grandfather obtained his US citizenship ir reference to his children being born. No one remembers - I know where to call in the US on that issue but how do I find out if he basically cancelled his Italian citizenship as has been mentioned in recent posts when someone might seek their own Italian citizenship based on ancestors citizenship. Since my father was the first child I know I have a better chance than my other family members in that my grandfather was slow in pushing this type of paperwork. Would the Italian consulate be able to give me information on this or would I have to write to Rome. There are no records for my grandfather left with the family as he died in 1975


One quick way would be to check his citizenship status in the 1910/1920 or 1930 census. When was your father born? If he was born before 1930, the census could cement with certainty his eligability. I have access to all three as do so many others on this forum. Post what you know date wise.

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Re: Citizenship

Postby acamma » 28 Jan 2005, 21:53

James:

I had looked in the census before but forgot about it as a souce for this. When I went to my copy of 1920 census I have my grandfather at 27 years old (not married yet to my grandmother). Now in those columns 13-15 he is listed as coming to the US in 1909 (which I think is wrong based on what my family lists him coming in 1901 or 1902). There is a no in 14 (which is if naturalized if I can read the blury copy). And in column 15 it is either 1909 again or 1919 as it cant really be read in enumerator's handwritting. I know my grandfather fought in WWI for US but I know even today you don't have to be a citizen to do that. But maybe since 1919 might have been his return date from Europe he became citizen then? My father was born in 1926 but at least where I have searched I can not find a listing of 1930 census for their state of residence (PA) and on asking someone at library who has a genealogical staff they had told me PA was not put on soundex and you have to know the enumeration district they lived in which I don't know how to find especially for a big city like Philadelphia.

But the other thing is that from my "reading" of written posts - my obtaining Italian citzenship could also hinge on if he gave up citizenship in Italy before my dad was born. It stated that some did not give up their ancestrial land citizenship due to fear/attachment/tradition. All of which I could see preventing my grandfather from action.
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Re: Citizenship

Postby JamesBianco » 28 Jan 2005, 22:07

acamma wrote:My father was born in 1926 but at least where I have searched I can not find a listing of 1930 census for their state of residence (PA) and on asking someone at library who has a genealogical staff they had told me PA was not put on soundex and you have to know the enumeration district they lived in which I don't know how to find especially for a big city like Philadelphia..


Yes it is fully indexed for the entire United States. Was your grandfather born here? If he was, and his father had not naturalized at that point, you are most definitely eligible to gain dual-citizenship. It is VERY unusual for an american born Italian to bother renouncing his Italian citizenship. There would be no point to it, since he was born in the United States which bases citizenship on being born IN the United States, while in Italy it is something passed down by birth right from father (or after 1948 mother). The only thing that would cause you to lose your right is if someone in the direct line renounced BEFORE the birth of the child you descend from. All you need to establish at this point is whether in 1926 your grandfather had taken the oath. The 1930 census will tell you that.
What was his name?

:) Jim
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Re: Citizenship

Postby acamma » 28 Jan 2005, 22:26

His name is same as mine without all the middle names:

Anthony Camma - He was born April 16, 1894 in Capri Leone, Sicily, Italy. He came he with his parents and siblings (the question is when either 1901/02 or 1909 as on the 1920 census). He lived in Phily with distant relatives until he was married. A major question on his father is if he died at sea coming here or when he got here (for some reason none of my aunts or uncle know this - which to me is something basic for them to know - where is someone buried). My great-grandfather's name was Francesco Camma (born 1857 - 100 years before me). Great grandmother was Serafina Tortorici Camma (born 1865).

My father Philip (Filipo) Camma was born in Philadelphia on May 23, 1923.


Since my father's mother Rose LaSpada Camma was born in Boston, Massachusetts, United States I think my only dual citizenship possibility is my grandfather.
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Re: Citizenship

Postby ptimber » 28 Jan 2005, 22:57

Dear Acamma see an attorney. Peter
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Re: Citizenship

Postby mfjp » 29 Jan 2005, 08:50

Hope this helps... the manifest is not linking anywhere...

http://ellisisland.org/search/shipManif ... 0678010285

Series   Roll   Volume   Year   Month   Day   Frame   Ship
T715   2119   4799   1913   July   1   ?   San Giorgio (inaccessible)   ?

Here Serafina is still married??

First Name: Serafina (b1865)
Last Name: Tortorici
Ethnicity: Italy, South
Last Place of Residence: Caprileone, Sicily
Date of Arrival: July 01, 1913
Age at Arrival:  48y    Gender:  F    Marital Status:  M  
Ship of Travel: San Giorgio
Port of Departure: Messina
Manifest Line Number: 0021
0020.  Reale, Tomasina F 28y S Italy, South Caprileone, Sicily
0021.  Tortorici, Serafina F 48y M Italy, South Caprileone, Sicily
0022.  Camma, Nunzia F 13y S Italy, South Caprileone, Sicily
0023.  Camma, Cesare M 13y S Italy, South Caprileone, Sicily
0024.  Camma, Giuseppe M 5y S Italy, South Caprileone, Sicily
------------------------------
Here's a possibility....
First Name: Grsco Paolo (should be Frsco) Francesco Paolo
Last Name: Camnia
Ethnicity: Italian, South
Last Place of Residence: Caprileone
Date of Arrival: July 02, 1907
Age at Arrival:  49y    Gender:  M    Marital Status:  M  
Ship of Travel: Italia
Port of Departure: Messina
Manifest Line Number: 0002
http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipM ... 018040092&

Would be joing his son Calogero... it mentions that Frsco was also in PA in 1905-1907.
---------------
This one is real hard to read... 8O

http://www.ellisisland.org/search/shipM ... 2652050414
First Name: Francesco
Last Name: Ca...
Ethnicity: Caprileone, It. South
Last Place of Residence: Caprileone
Date of Arrival: May 25, 1903
Age at Arrival:  45y    Gender:  M    Marital Status:  M  
Ship of Travel: San Gottardo
Port of Departure: Naples
Manifest Line Number: 0006

to PA to join his brother Pietro ??
-----------------------------------
Since there was a "Reale" traveling with Serafina, I thought I would check out the "Reale's" and sure enough Francesco Camma's name is mentioned...

http://ellisisland.org/search/shipManif ... 2297160029
First Name: Calogero
Last Name: Reale
Ethnicity: Italy, So. Italian
Last Place of Residence: Caprileone
Date of Arrival: September 26, 1906
Age at Arrival:  15y    Gender:  M    Marital Status:  S  
Ship of Travel: Germania
Port of Departure: Naples
Manifest Line Number: 0013

Here it mention that Colagero is going to join his uncle Francesco Camma in Pa! The address here is clear...

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Re: Citizenship

Postby mfjp » 01 Feb 2005, 06:42

Maybe??

Name:   Anthony Canna
Age:   36
Estimated birth year:   abt 1894
Birthplace:   Italy
Relation to head-of-house:   Head
Spouse's Name:   Rose Canna
Race:   White
Home in 1930:   Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Family: Phillip, Sadie, Lillian
Image source:   Year: 1930; Census Place: Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Roll: 2093; Page:  ; Enumeration District: 22; Image: 86.0.

http://img167.exs.cx/img167/5462/anthcamm5me.jpg

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Re: Citizenship

Postby acamma » 01 Feb 2005, 17:46

Definitily them. First time I actually get to see a US government record showing my grandparents and their children (even if it is just the first 3). All other data show them before marriage or as individuals. Philip is the oldest and my father. And as a first son to an immigrant Ialian family definitly was seen as the way for this family to break through the behind the scene prejudices many of our Italian ancestors saw in this country but had to accept. It thus helped when my dad went to war in WWII and came home for the GI Bill and got to study and graduate from the Univ of Penn (a place I know my grandfather never even knew he would see a child even be considered for when he hit the shores of the US in the early 1900's). My grandfather definitly was into that old world image of first sons and unfortunately at times a male dominated and controlled society in that he would of prefered 6 boys as opposed to 2 boys and 4 girls as my aunts tell me he used to say to them all the time. Which is funny now that all his daughters have lead successful family lives but also business lives, so they showed him them could be just as driven and goal oriented as the Camma men. :P 8) Thanks again.
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