The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

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The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby MCKay » 06 Sep 2012, 22:11

I doubt whether there would be a poll on which place is better but I was wondering if anyone would know if it is better to declare jus sanguinis‎ in Rome or whether it is better to do so in a stateside consulate. I've been having trouble with the Miami consulate since I am so far away and I wonder whether it would be better to get my father to go to Rome with all of the documentation rather than wait the year for an appointment in Miami. I've also heard that they are rather difficult down in Miami. For everyone else's benefit it'd be nice if people could post here the positive or negative nature of their experiences at consulates in the USA or in Rome.
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby droe » 07 Sep 2012, 00:24

Yes you can apply in italy but ONLY if you have residency in Italy, and you apply with the comune (town) of your residency. (You can't just be "in town" and apply, you have to be legally (residency) bound with the town)

If you do not have residency in Italy, you have to apply at the Italian consulate with jurisdiction over where you live.

And you will need your apostilles and certified translations before you begin the process.

The Miami is not as bad as say New York in getting thing accepted and approved. The timeline for an appointment is rather long.

Is there an a reason for the rush?
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby droe » 07 Sep 2012, 00:29

Also find a ton of information on the porcess here:

http://italiancitizenship.freeforums.org/index.php



From over on the Expats on Italy Board:

I’m new to expattalk and have spent the past several days scouring existing threads in hopes of gleaning as much info as possible before posting any replies. I think I’ve organized my thoughts and questions as much as possible, I just hope I’m not being so long winded that I discourage people from reading. Here goes:

I’m applying for citizenship through Juris Sanguis through my grandmother and have decided to do so at a comune in Italy. From what I can tell, I am an ideal candidate for this route because I am moving to Italy this October to study the language for a year. While researching possible ways to obtain a student visa, I found out about Circolare 32 and decided to go this route to establish residency in Italy. However, I do still have a few questions about the process, locations and terminology involved. Soooo, I was hoping someone out there might be able to clarify the subject a little bit. Any thoughts/insights/opinions are greatly appreciated. A breakdown of my understanding of the process is as follows:

1) Go to Questura
a. Within 8 days of arrival
b. Bring passport
c. Receive Dichiarazione di Presenza (Declaration of Presence)
2) Go to Comune (or is the Anagrafe?)
a. Bring Dichiarazione di Presenza from step 1
b. Bring copy of Circolare 32 – just in case
c. This starts the procedure to establish residency
3) Wait for visit from Vigili (aka police) at your local residence
a. This takes about 2 weeks
b. If police arrive at your residence while you are there, they will give you a “residency certificate” verifying that you do in fact live at that location.
c. If police arrive at your residence while you are away, they will leave a note indicating that you can respond at the police office within 24 hours. If you are able to make this deadline, they will then give you your “residency certificate,” otherwise this step restarts and you will have to wait about another 2 weeks.
4) Go to Comune (or is it the Stato Civile?)
a. Bring “residency certificate” from step 3
b. Bring Citizenship Packet (aka vital records, apostilles, translations, etc)
c. Leave “residency certificate” and “Citizenship Packet”
d. Receive “printout receipt” indicating that your application for citizenship is being processed.
5) Go to Poste Office (or is it the Comune? or the Questura?)
a. Bring “printout receipt” from step 4
b. This is where you apply for your PdiS – attesa per cittadinanza (Residency Permit while awaiting citizenship)
6) Wait for arrival of both PdiS as well as citizenship notification
a. Either one can come first
b. Wait time varies for both (2 months to 1 year)
c. Dance a jig once official notication of italian citizenship arrives
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby jennabet » 07 Sep 2012, 11:12

It's really very simple. You must apply where you have legal residence.

If you live in the USA, work there, go to school there, pay taxes there, drive a car there, receive medical care there, etc., you must apply at the Italian consulate that has jurisdiction for your state. The fact that you consulate may be booked up and cannot schedule you for a year or even two years doesn't change anything. You must wait your turn.

If you live in Italy, work there, go to school there, pay taxes there, drive a car there, receive medical care there, etc., you must apply in the Italian Comune that has jurisdiction for the municipality where you live.

If you live in any other foreign country, work there, go to school there, pay taxes there, drive a car there, receive medical care there,etc., you must apply in the Italian consulate that has jurisdiction for the city, town, province where you live.
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby kontessa » 07 Sep 2012, 14:32

It is possible to apply for citizenship in Italy without already being a legal resident. Circolare 32 covers that.

There has been a suggestion that comuni are now rejecting applications from people that haven't already been a legal resident. I've searched a number of Italian websites and have found no evidence to support that theory. (If someone could provide a link to an article, or to the actual regulation/directive, that would be most helpful.)

I have read accounts from 2 or 3 people that have had a comune refuse to process their applications, though, and it may very well be because they felt that the applicants were in town just to apply for citizenship. The comune's decision to reject those applications is completely understandable.
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby kontessa » 07 Sep 2012, 14:35

droe wrote:1) Go to Questura
a. Within 8 days of arrival
b. Bring passport
c. Receive Dichiarazione di Presenza (Declaration of Presence)
2) Go to Comune (or is the Anagrafe?)
a. Bring Dichiarazione di Presenza from step 1
b. Bring copy of Circolare 32 – just in case
c. This starts the procedure to establish residency
3) Wait for visit from Vigili (aka police) at your local residence
a. This takes about 2 weeks
b. If police arrive at your residence while you are there, they will give you a “residency certificate” verifying that you do in fact live at that location.
c. If police arrive at your residence while you are away, they will leave a note indicating that you can respond at the police office within 24 hours. If you are able to make this deadline, they will then give you your “residency certificate,” otherwise this step restarts and you will have to wait about another 2 weeks.
4) Go to Comune (or is it the Stato Civile?)
a. Bring “residency certificate” from step 3
b. Bring Citizenship Packet (aka vital records, apostilles, translations, etc)
c. Leave “residency certificate” and “Citizenship Packet”
d. Receive “printout receipt” indicating that your application for citizenship is being processed.
5) Go to Poste Office (or is it the Comune? or the Questura?)
a. Bring “printout receipt” from step 4
b. This is where you apply for your PdiS – attesa per cittadinanza (Residency Permit while awaiting citizenship)
6) Wait for arrival of both PdiS as well as citizenship notification
a. Either one can come first
b. Wait time varies for both (2 months to 1 year)
c. Dance a jig once official notication of italian citizenship arrives


droe - was this list posted by Roark? I've been trying to find that. Thanks for posting.
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby kontessa » 07 Sep 2012, 14:44

MCKay wrote:I doubt whether there would be a poll on which place is better but I was wondering if anyone would know if it is better to declare jus sanguinis‎ in Rome or whether it is better to do so in a stateside consulate. I've been having trouble with the Miami consulate since I am so far away and I wonder whether it would be better to get my father to go to Rome with all of the documentation rather than wait the year for an appointment in Miami. I've also heard that they are rather difficult down in Miami. For everyone else's benefit it'd be nice if people could post here the positive or negative nature of their experiences at consulates in the USA or in Rome.


Sorry to be blunt, but don't think that applying in Rome will necessarily be easier than applying in Miami, even with a one-year wait for an appointment. I applied for citizenship in Italy after already being a resident for 6 or 7 years and it was anything but easy! Others have had a much easier time, but there are no guarantees.

What exactly are the troubles you've been having with Miami?

There is a poster named Italy-Bound on the italiancitizenship.freeforums website that was also considering applying in Italy, but end up using the consulate in Miami. Maybe you could search his threads or send him a pm?
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby droe » 07 Sep 2012, 16:15

kontessa wrote:
droe wrote:droe - was this list posted by Roark? I've been trying to find that. Thanks for posting.


Yes it is and I will once again to try and find the 21 page write up he had.

Maybe asking the admin of Expats to post a link might help..... I'll ask.

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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby droe » 07 Sep 2012, 16:21

jennabet wrote:It's really very simple. You must apply where you have legal residence.

If you live in the USA, work there, go to school there, pay taxes there, drive a car there, receive medical care there, etc., you must apply at the Italian consulate that has jurisdiction for your state. The fact that you consulate may be booked up and cannot schedule you for a year or even two years doesn't change anything. You must wait your turn.

If you live in Italy, work there, go to school there, pay taxes there, drive a car there, receive medical care there, etc., you must apply in the Italian Comune that has jurisdiction for the municipality where you live.

If you live in any other foreign country, work there, go to school there, pay taxes there, drive a car there, receive medical care there,etc., you must apply in the Italian consulate that has jurisdiction for the city, town, province where you live.



Not correct. You can go to Italy, establish residency and turn in your paperwork and gain your citizenship.

There is nothing that says you have to pay taxes, and BTW you can not work during the process but you can live there until it is approved.

Why you seem to be determined to post information that is not correct is amazing.
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby MCKay » 07 Sep 2012, 18:33


Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby droe » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:24 pm
Yes you can apply in italy but ONLY if you have residency in Italy, and you apply with the comune (town) of your residency. (You can't just be "in town" and apply, you have to be legally (residency) bound with the town)

If you do not have residency in Italy, you have to apply at the Italian consulate with jurisdiction over where you live.

And you will need your apostilles and certified translations before you begin the process.

The Miami is not as bad as say New York in getting thing accepted and approved. The timeline for an appointment is rather long.

Is there an a reason for the rush?


Yes there is a reason to my rushing. Not only would I like to get this done and over with (I've been at it for nearly seven years now) but I'm also planning on going back to school in the EU and EU citizenship will greatly help.
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby droe » 07 Sep 2012, 19:42

Your best choice is to get a student visa and work within the system once you are in Italy that way.

If that is not an option you have little or no choice but to use the consulate system in the US and basically wait for the appointment to roll around.

I do not see any way to force the sysem to respoind any faster. Then again you could move to a Consulate area that has less demand such as say Detroit.

Good luck.
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby jennabet » 08 Sep 2012, 00:13

......Not correct. You can go to Italy, establish residency and turn in your paperwork and gain your citizenship. There is nothing that says you have to pay taxes, and BTW you can not work during the process but you can live there until it is approved. Why you seem to be determined to post information that is not correct is amazing.droe......

Who said anything about income taxes? But of course, because you don't live in Italy, you wouldn't know that everyone pays a TV tax and everyone pays a garbage tax -- if you have legal residency. So yes, if you're applying at a Comune it's because you have residency there and you're paying taxes there.

Amazing that you insist on posting information which you know absolutely nothing about.
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby jennabet » 08 Sep 2012, 00:16

....Your best choice is to get a student visa and work within the system once you are in Italy that way.....

Oh NOW this person needs a student visa. What happened to "just bring your paperwork to Italy, establish residency and apply"?
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby droe » 08 Sep 2012, 00:53

jennabet wrote:....
Oh NOW this person needs a student visa. What happened to "just bring your paperwork to Italy, establish residency and apply"?



Do you ever read an entire post before you type a reply. The OP stated they wanted to return to school thus their rush to proceed and saw having their citizenship a plus in advance of this happening.

Since there is going to be some time passing before every thing would be complete a student visa is the best way if they want to attend school. Solves two things at one time.

And this should light off a reply as a student they could work on a limited basis and while that solves your argument of not paying taxes it now takes a job away from a full time resident. This has got to make you a little crazy.
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Re: The best place to declare Jus Sanguinis

Postby digatta » 08 Sep 2012, 18:47

so i've got a question that is related to *where* to apply from and hoping somebody might answer it on this thread.

i'm going to send in application later this year which is purely to arrange an appointment with the consulate of my jurisdiction. however, i'm planning on traveling for an extended period (up to a year) of time which is likely to start right after i send the appointment request in.

if i don't keep my legal residence (which is a waste of money while i'm gone) and for some reason when i return i wind up in another jurisdiction, is this going to be an issue for the consulate i made the appointment with?

i could always wait until i get back before scheduling but:

1) that's a long time to put this process off and i'd rather be accumulating that time right now so i can get the earliest date possible.

2) i think i'm hearing on forums that upon return, if i wind up living in another jurisdiction, it's kind of like trying to get in state tuition - e.g you have to live there for a year before you're considered an in-state *resident* of that state. which would push the entire thing out possibly even another year longer.

anybody have suggestions how to best handle my appointment scheduling and actual appointment, a process that might be interrupted by travel and change of jurisdiction ? and is there any truth to #2 above?

thx
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