Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby jennabet » 13 Sep 2012, 22:25

In the case of Italians who permanently departed Italy for better lives in places like USA and South America, I doubt too many of them were anxious to announce their presence at an Italian consulate especially when their main goal was to renounce the King of Italy.
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby jennabet » 13 Sep 2012, 22:30

kontessa wrote:To the OP, try to sort through the noise. :D


.....and the name of that Comune is......? You know the one that accepted the birth certificate which was not an original but which you had created for a deceased person?
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby kontessa » 13 Sep 2012, 22:36

Granadaiscool...why not post some of your questions on italiancitizenship.freeforums.org. There are a number of people who frequent there that may provide some assistance. You won't be bothered by tangential excursions either. :lol:

Also, if you read Italian, have you checked out tuttostranieri.it?
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby droe » 13 Sep 2012, 22:43

Granadaiscool...

There is a good point over at italiancitizenship.freeforums.org you will also with a bunch of digging find several people that had delayed birth certificates issued in putting things together.

Plus despite the rants of one poster the delayed BC is accepted and it is a legal document. And yes once accepted at the Consulate level it is accepted at the Comune level.

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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby kontessa » 13 Sep 2012, 22:51

Agree with droe...SalSno=jennabet has been banned from that site so you might find a less hostile environment.
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby jennabet » 13 Sep 2012, 23:21

droe wrote:Granadaiscool...

There is a good point over at italiancitizenship.freeforums.org you will also with a bunch of digging find several people that had delayed birth certificates issued in putting things together.

Plus despite the rants of one poster the delayed BC is accepted and it is a legal document. And yes once accepted at the Consulate level it is accepted at the Comune level.

-droe


The OP has already informed us that the Consulate in Argentina (Buenos Aires, I believe it is), will not accept other than the original birth certificate and will also not accept any type of substitution document that has been authorized by a court. What does anyone not understand about this?

Again Kontessa, the name of that Comune?
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby jennabet » 13 Sep 2012, 23:27

Granadaiscool, you have mentioned that you have a copy of your GGF's birth certficate but you don't know for sure if it's the correct one. Where did you get it? To know for sure that you have the right person, you should write to your Comune and provide them with as much information about your GGF's family as possible. This would include the name of his parents and siblings, as this will allow the Comune to narrow down the family. It may take some extra research on your part but I don't know how else you can identify your GGF without at least the name of his parents.
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby jennabet » 13 Sep 2012, 23:44

kontessa wrote:
jennabet wrote:Next, there may be a legal mechanism in New York State to create a birth certificate for a deceased person but Kontessa must provide this forum with the name of the Comune in Italy that accepted such a document so that I, for one, can either call that Comune myself or have an Italian lawyer friend call and confirm that it does in fact accept such documentation for a citizenship recognition case.


You don't believe something is possible, so that makes it impossible? I would recommend that you contact the consulate in NYC first - since they were the Italian authorities outside of Italy that authenticated the document for use in Italy - and inquire as to why a delayed record of birth might be an acceptable document. Then, you might want to do some actual research about how the legal system operates, or maybe google evidentiary documentation, proof or perhaps even try to find some scholarly articles that might set your mind at ease. It happened. It was done legally. Nothing illicit going on here and for you to suggest as much is ridiculous.


A consulate will authenticate one or two or all of your documents for use in Italy. However, the consulate does not guarantee that any document will be accepted in Italy. Acceptance is up to the Comune and if the Consulate doesn't accept a document, it's not likely the Comune will either.

As far as how the legal system works, sorry, not interested. Both cases I worked on were straight forward and didn't require New York lawyers to be involved. Research and scholarly articles that apply to the USA do not apply in Italy, so again, sorry, not interested.

And the name of that Comune again?
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby DaniVerde » 14 Sep 2012, 06:23

jennabet wrote:
Again Kontessa, the name of that Comune?



Seriously, who appointed you citizenship police? If the commune accepted it, they accepted it. You have no right to "call them or have an Italian lawyer friend call them."

The nerve.
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby jennabet » 14 Sep 2012, 16:55

So, apparently Kontessa has still not provided the name of the Comune that accepted a birth certificate created for a deceased person. Very interesting. This indeed makes it difficult to call and confirm that Kontessa posts legitimate facts or has any accurate knowledge about this process at all. Therefore it's probably best to check with your consulate and take any advice from Kontessa with a grain of salt or avoid it entirely. It could save you a lot of time and money.
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby droe » 14 Sep 2012, 17:30

jennabet wrote:So, apparently Kontessa has still not provided the name of the Comune that accepted a birth certificate created for a deceased person. Very interesting. ======================= Therefore it's probably best to check with your consulate and take any advice from Kontessa with a grain of salt or avoid it entirely. It could save you a lot of time and money.



Nothing more than a person who post the rules are changing and can not provide a link to the newspaper they were reading or give a name to the source to be checked.

Then we have the attitude just because they think they know all the facts will bully their way around to what look like they hold all the keys to the knowledge base.

The bes thing would be just skip over their post and take it for granted they are not useful or imnportant.
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby kontessa » 14 Sep 2012, 22:51

Here's a link containing a post from someone else who also obtained a delayed birth record - am reposting the script below the link.

http://italiancitizenship.freeforums.or ... t3524.html

Hi Pablo, it's not true that you need "the original" birth certificate (in many cases, like in mine, there simply isn't one), but you may well need an "official" one. For example, here in the US, my grandfather was born at home and his family never registered his birth, nor did he ever apply for a "delayed" birth certificate (as it is usually called here). However, I was able to get a lawyer to petition a judge in the county where he was born and the judge issued a court order (based on the evidence I provided, such as baptismal certificate, military records, social security, and death records) to have a "delayed record of birth" created in the state. This delayed certificate does state that it is a "delayed" record and says when it was created. but it is an official record of birth provided by the state, even though it was almost 100 years after he was born and 30 years after his death. It was accepted as proof of birth for my grandfather both by the Italian Embassy in DC where I applied as well as in Philadelphia, where my cousin applied. So the person you spoke with is mistaken about that. I am not sure which country you are in, but I would investigate what it would take to have a delayed birth record created for him there. If your country issues it as a valid, official record of birth, it should be accepted by the consulate/embassy where you are. Keep in mind, the hurdle for you may still be in being able to prove the date of birth, name at birth, and parents names--you would still need some sort of official or semi-official documentation in all likelihood in order to convince a judge to order that a delayed birth record be created for him. Best of luck!
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby DaniVerde » 14 Sep 2012, 23:18

jennabet wrote:So, apparently Kontessa has still not provided the name of the Comune that accepted a birth certificate created for a deceased person. Very interesting. This indeed makes it difficult to call and confirm that Kontessa posts legitimate facts or has any accurate knowledge about this process at all. Therefore it's probably best to check with your consulate and take any advice from Kontessa with a grain of salt or avoid it entirely. It could save you a lot of time and money.


And again, who appointed you Citizenship Police? And by all means, please provide us with all of your information (including the name and contact details of your "Italian lawyer friend") so that way someone here can call and confirm all of the "facts" that you announce here like your word is supreme.
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby jennabet » 15 Sep 2012, 17:10

A substitution record created by a judge to replace the birth certificate for someone born 100 years ago and deceased for 30 years is not guaranteed proof of where or when that person was born. Yes, it was nice of the Italian Embassy in Washington, D.C. and the Philadelphia Consulate to accept such a document because it was created in the USA but this is not the norm and I doubt ANY Comune in Italy would accept such a document. In addition, I also doubt any Consulate in any Latin country would accept such a document as proof of when and where a person was born. And once again, Kontessa has still not provided the info asked for.

A baby with no birth certificate because he was born at home could also have been born at home -- IN Italy and brought as an infant to the USA. If they get into the USA unaccounted for by crossing the Rio Grande, they got into the USA unaccounted for in steerage too -- and anybody who thinks otherwise is a fool. The same applies to Argentina as even more Italian immigrants entered that country.
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Re: Impossible to find birth certificate in Argentina

Postby droe » 15 Sep 2012, 17:57

jennabet wrote: And once again, Kontessa has still not provided the info asked for.

A baby with no birth certificate because he was born at home could also have been born at home -- IN Italy and brought as an infant to the USA. If they get into the USA unaccounted for by crossing the Rio Grande, they got into the USA unaccounted for in steerage too -- and anybody who thinks otherwise is a fool. The same applies to Argentina as even more Italian immigrants entered that country.



And you were asked for information in another thread and never supplied it. Maybe due to the fact it does not exist.

Your comments are nothing more than rude and in most cases not accurate.

BTW the comment on crossing the Rio Grande is really not very nice but that seems to be the way you respond to everything.
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