Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

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Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby garypeg » 23 Sep 2012, 09:29

I had my appointment at the Philadelphia consulate and was told since I was divorced I had to get them a copy of the decree and something to show that the divorce is final besides the document itself. The secretary of state issued an affidavit stating that there was only that one document in the file. The document states the divorce is final. Now the consulate is saying they need a letter from a Colorado attorney stating the divorce is final. They said that some states issue a preliminary divorce and 6 months later a final one if there are no disputes. I have talked to two Colorado family lawyers so far and both did not want to write such a letter. I have asked the second one to tell me why and am waiting for a reply.

So that you know, this divorce was issued in 1976!!!!!!!

Here is what it say: "It is further ordered and decreed that a dissolution be entered, and the marriage... is hereby dissolved." I do not know how much clearer this can get.

So anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? I will try more attorneys on Monday.

Thanks
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby garypeg » 23 Sep 2012, 09:40

x
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby jcat » 23 Sep 2012, 14:19

Hi, What the consulate needs is a certified copy of your "Judgement & Decree" I don't think that you need a lawyer to take care of this issue. Usually a certified copy can be obtained at the Department of health in the county that your divorce took place or at the State Department of health. Is the consulate asking for you to mail it to them?
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby garypeg » 23 Sep 2012, 14:27

They have this document. I stated that in my post. It says the divorce is final. They want a lawyer to say that indeed the divorce is final.
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby garypeg » 23 Sep 2012, 14:28

I did not state that I had given them the decree very clearly though.
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby jcat » 23 Sep 2012, 14:53

I had a similar situation when I went to the Miami consulate in 2009, I needed to present my Judgement&Decree from my divorce. Was the decree you presented signed by the judge and did the divorce papers have "Judgement & Decree on it?
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby garypeg » 23 Sep 2012, 14:57

Yes and yes. It is a perfect document. She told me I would have to have something besides the certified divorce decree at my meeting, before she had seen it!
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby jcat » 23 Sep 2012, 15:11

Something from a lawyer? Ugh,then they are saying that the lawyer's signature on something is more important than the judge's signature on a judgement& decree.... one would think that the Judgement and decree is sufficient! was enough for me three years ago in Miami. sorry you caught a snag......seems different consulates are looking for different documents or they are changing up the rules. As if the citizenship process isn't tough enough, now lawyers are needed to be recognized as a citizen?
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby droe » 23 Sep 2012, 15:15

OK from above I gather you turned in a final copy of the divorce decree, translated and apostilled.

What they are asking for is a •Certificate attesting to the fact that "the judgment is no longer appealable" or that "no appeal has been filed", notarized with an Apostille

It is a letter that basically states that the divorce is final, can not longer be appealed and there are no appeals pending. Wording is key.

Like there would be any from a 1976 divorce.

You can ask for such a letter from a county clerk where the paperwork is filed, from the state attorney generals office, or from the attorney that handled your end of the divorce.

It needs to be notarized and an apostille attached and translated into Italian.

It is not something most places see or are asked to supply. You will have to explain that it is being requested by the Italian Consulate for citizenship recognization.
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby garypeg » 23 Sep 2012, 15:22

Thanks for the reply. That' a tall order. All the old divorce records from Boulder County (Colroado) have been transferred to Denver. The records people did not want to say anything other than the divorce decree is the only document in the file. From the AG's office? They get involved in this sort of thing? As for my attorney, I did not have one. Not sure if I can get anywhere with this. She was not asking for a translation or an apostile, just a letter. How do you apostille a letter from an attorney anyway?
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby droe » 23 Sep 2012, 18:21

First:

When a document is to be used in a foreign country, it may be necessary to have the document authenticated. An authentication certifies the signature and the capacity of the official who has executed the document. The authentication may also authenticate the seal of the official.

Second:

You should be able to get a copy of the divorce document that they have on file. It is the official findings of the case, the outcome and is signed by the judge. Go to this website for Colorado and they will have details on how to obtain a copy of divorce records:

http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/CD ... 1593016787

Third:

The letter that the judgment is no longer appealable" or that "no appeal has been filed can be obtain in several ways.

From my experience in New York State it can be obtained via the country clerk. In my case I needed one also from Maryland (two divorces). In Maryland the county clerks only produce documents listed in their manuals. I contacted the AG and their chief legal counsel who understood the documented needed and he did the letter. It was a way to get things done and a bit creative.

In your case I would think that you can find a lawyer in Colorado who can review the case and write the letter attesting to the fact it is final, past the time for any conest and there are no appeals.

The attorney would then have his/her signature notarized and that would then allow an apostile to be fixed to the document.

I would first get a certified copy of the divorce from vital records so that it can be sent to an attorney and reviewed so a letter can be generated.

I would also contact Philly and ask if they want the divorce translated and an appostile attached to the divorce and if the translations needs to be apostilled as well. Then you might need to send it to the Consulate that is over COlorado to certifiy the document.

At the same time ask if the no contest letter needs translation, apostile and certified by the governing consulate.

Now this is what I had to do for the New York Consulate and might not be in force in Philly so to be safe ask the questions.

Hope this helps.

-d
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby garypeg » 24 Sep 2012, 04:56

Well I have the first two and now working on the 3rd. I've been turned down by several lawyers so far, who say they do not do that sort of thing. Assuming I do get one to write this simple letter, I send it to the Secretary of State to be apostilled, correct? I can not got to the County Clerk since all the divorces from that time are now in Denver. Maybe that clerk? Or the AG? Who in the AG's office, I mean what sort of office did you talk to in the AG's office? thanks for the reply. At least I know that the Philly office request is not unusual. They should says this is a requirement in the docs they publish on their website.
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby dgeorge » 24 Sep 2012, 22:48

What they want to go along with the divorce decree is something called a "certificate of no appeal". That certificate certifies that the divorce is final and cannot be appealed by anyone. You can get it by going back to the place where you got a copy of the decree and ask for the certificate of no appeal. It is a common form letter available from court clerks and it can be appostilled. I got one here in CT to prove my parents divorce was finalized and cannot not be appealed by amnyone. Good luck!
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby droe » 24 Sep 2012, 23:25

While the no appeal letter might be common in CT it is not in NY or MD. Most clerks here have no idea when approached.

Colorado should not be any insane than NY. What I did for MD was visit the website of the AG. I found the name and email for the chief counsel. I explained my problem in an email and asked if it would be possibel to call him.

He did better he called me, had me send a copy of the divorce and clerks minutes to him and bingo I get the letter. Might be worth a shot in Colorado. If that does not work try the same thing with the clerk of the court where the divorce was filed. If they can not do as you explain is needed ask them where or how you obtain such a letter.

It might take some time and a few emails and calls but it can be done. In NY it took me 3 months and in MD 2 to finally nail it down.

Might be insane right now with all of this but the end result is more than worth it.....
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Re: Phialdelphia requirement and divoce decree proof

Postby dgeorge » 25 Sep 2012, 00:30

The clerk in CT also had no idea what the certificate was called or what is was used for since nobody ever asks for such a thing. A quick call to the law librarian at the court cleared it up for the clerk and he filled out the letter. I have no idea how it works in any other state, but it is an avenue to ask about for sure.
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