Change in policy -adult relative piggybacking

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Change in policy -adult relative piggybacking

Postby sforza » 23 Oct 2012, 09:41

The MAE has issued a policy making it more difficult for adult relatives - even those in the first degree - to piggyback off an accepted JS application if the adult lives in a different Consular jurisdiction. Previously, a piggy-backing JS applicant could reference the file number of the recognized family member. The Consulates would share this info. Now, the piggybacker must submit the entire file starting from the direct ascendant. This is being implemented differently by different Consulates. Newark, for instance, requires the piggybacker to submit the entire file in original, according to its website. SF, on the other hand, allows copies of the file authenticated by the originating Consulate at a per page cost, also described on ts website.
Thus, out-of-jurisdiction JS is being treated differently. It's not enough to produce the Italian birth and citizenship certs of the relative. You need the entire file from scratch.
Another good reason to get multiple certified copies of the vital records if you intend to have adult children or other adult relatives living outside your jurisdiction piggyback off your JS recognition.
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Re: Change in policy -adult relative piggybacking

Postby mler » 24 Oct 2012, 02:19

That is certainly discouraging. :(

Perhaps the adult child of a recognized citizen would not need to jump through all those hoops. I would think that the registered bc of the parent would be enough, but the way rules seem to change so frequently, perhaps logic doesn't always prevail.
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Re: Change in policy -adult relative piggybacking

Postby sforza » 24 Oct 2012, 18:21

For sure. It is intuitive that a first degree JS case simply requires the Italian birth and citizenship cert of the parent to proceed. Unfortunately, this does not appear to be how it is viewed, at least by Newark. To quote from its website:
"If the applicant has relatives who have obtained the recognition of Italian citizenship in another consular jurisdiction or in Italy, he will have to present the entire documentation in original in support of his own application."
Maybe I'm not being creative enough in my interpretation, but I don't see much flexibility here...
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Re: Change in policy -adult relative piggybacking

Postby cpa21 » 25 Oct 2012, 05:33

Which will be less expensive getting all new documents or presenting the certified copies from the original consulate?

My sister in Newark has now decided to piggy back off my NY recognition. An original NYC Birth or death certificate runs $15, Authenication $3, Apostille 10, plus authentication By the NY Consulate for use in Newark. ~ $40. A certifed copy from the consulate??? A long form Marriage certificate with Apostille costs a bit more.

Then we come to the Italian documents. My grandfather's date of birth was incorrectly transcribed when Palermo digitized the birth certificates. His birth month was changed from 10 to 12. Fotunately, I had an older birth certificate that was correct. Good luck with correcting his birth certificate in Palermo!

Finally, we have all the Naturalization documents. In this case a certifcate of nonexistence plus the census, the local courts, and NARA.

Oh well her appointment isn't until June of 2014. The rules will probably change again. Maybe Newark will close and she will go to NY!
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Re: Change in policy -adult relative piggybacking

Postby mler » 26 Oct 2012, 14:19

Check with Newark. Newark has always had a close relationship with the New York consulate and was, at one time, part of the New York consulate's network (although it handled its own citizenship recognition). They may well be willing to accept documents that went through New York, even if they are unwilling to do so for documents submitted elsewhere. It's at least worth a shot.
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Re: Change in policy -adult relative piggybacking

Postby sforza » 29 Oct 2012, 02:58

A concern I would have is the potential renewed scrutiny of a file. Example - someone is recognized in Philly w/a pre-1912 naturalization while next-in-line is a minor. Someone is piggybacking off of that recognition in NY, which clearly excludes such individuals from JS eligibility. How does NY proceed in that instance??
If that person were rejected, it would indicate that the relative would not in fact be piggybacking at all.
Each application would be judged on its own merits.
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Re: Change in policy -adult relative piggybacking

Postby mler » 29 Oct 2012, 03:15

A legitimate concern and one, I think, that would create ethical concerns among the consulates. The person who had his citizenship recognized at a consulate that did not consider the 1912 issue would still be a citizen; that would not change. If NY then rejects the piggybacking relative, it would, in effect, be saying that the original consulate and the comune erred in recognizing the original applicant--not a good thing.

Perhaps that is the reason for Newark's insistence that applicants start from scratch. A better alternative, of course, would be to establish specific guidelines that permit uniform decisions on various issues. A person's eligibility should not be based on where he applies or who handles his application.

Unfortunately, that is not likely to happen.
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