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Two birth certificates of one person - Which one is correct?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Two birth certificates of one person - Which one is correct?

Postby Vargen » 19 Nov 2013, 21:30

Hi,

I'm inquiring on behalf of my Brazilian wife. I'm Dutch myself, and we both live in Brazil. She can and wants to get dual citizenship but has stumbles upon a problem: Caneva, the Italian community where her family originally came from, has TWO birth certificates on record for her great-grandfather. The documents are almost identical (even the number is the same!) but the names are different:

Giobbe Antonio Da Re
Giuseppe Antonio De Re

Now, I understand that Giobbe is probably a kind of nickname for Giuseppe, and the rest of the family back in Italy goes by the name of De Re, so the latter is probably the correct one. Still how can we find out for certain if this is true? And how can there be two documents with the same number for one single person?

I hope someone can help us with this. :)
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Re: Two birth certificates of one person - Which one is corr

Postby suanj » 20 Nov 2013, 12:26

Hi, you can say us the birth year of Giobbe and Giuseppe?
Thanks,
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Re: Two birth certificates of one person - Which one is corr

Postby Vargen » 20 Nov 2013, 13:42

suanj wrote:Hi, you can say us the birth year of Giobbe and Giuseppe?
Thanks,
suanj


Hi suanj, thanks for the reply. The birthdate on both documents is December 6, 1871 (written as 06.12.1871 and 06/12/1871 respectively).

I noticed there is one other thing different between the documents, the Atto n. lines:

ATTO N. 53 Parte I ANNO 1871
ATTO N. 53/anno 1871

Note the "Parte I" in the first ATTO (the Da Re) one. This one we actually have a physical/stamped copy of here at home sent to us by the comune in Caneva. It also has a big size double folded copy of what appears to be the original handwritten birth registry.

The second mentioned ATTO we only have a scan of, sent to us by a person from Italy living in that comune, and who incidentally has the family name De Re (the reason why my wife contacted him, although he's not actually from her bloodline). This person claims that "De Re" is correct, since there are many people living there with this name. He also claimed that back in those times there were often kept two records of a person's life: One in the comune, and the other in a Catholic registry.
This could explain the two slightly different certificates, but still doesn't explain which one is correct.

We also had another someone from Italy (not from the Caneva comune) tell us that "Da Re" is probably correct because where he lives that is a common name, as opposed to De Re claimed by the person I mentioned in above passage. also this other person says that it's actually not important, that only the actual number is important. Because in those days they often made mistakes in names, dates, etc.

I could upload the scans of the two documents if you want, although I'm not sure that would shed any more light on the issue.
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Re: Two birth certificates of one person - Which one is corr

Postby suanj » 20 Nov 2013, 19:20

however in Caneva was the Da Ré and the De Ré ( with accent)

by ten index (1871-1880) Caneva births I found just:
DA RE' ( family nickname: Tonon Cappellat) Giobbe Antonio [son of Domenico Da Ré 33 old (son of late Giobbe)] b. 1871 #53 Parte I°
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... n282387044

Birth Act: 6 Dec 1871 #53 Parte I°
Giobbe Antonio DA RE' son of Domenico [son of Domenico Da Ré 33 old (son of late Giobbe)] and of Anna FEDRIGO (daughter of late GioBatta)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... n282387044

I no found other birth act #53 in 1871 Caneva births abt a Giuseppe Antonio Da Ré or De Ré.. as a well in the ten index nobody Giuseppe Antonio born in 1871...


It is a mystery... seeming a error of clerk...
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Re: Two birth certificates of one person - Which one is corr

Postby Vargen » 20 Nov 2013, 19:56

suanj wrote:however in Caneva was the Da Ré and the De Ré ( with accent)

by ten index (1871-1880) Caneva births I found just:
DA RE' ( family nickname: Tonon Cappellat) Giobbe Antonio [son of Domenico Da Ré 33 old (son of late Giobbe)] b. 1871 #53 Parte I°
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... n282387044

Birth Act: 6 Dec 1871 #53 Parte I°
Giobbe Antonio DA RE' son of Domenico [son of Domenico Da Ré 33 old (son of late Giobbe)] and of Anna FEDRIGO (daughter of late GioBatta)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... n282387044

I no found other birth act #53 in 1871 Caneva births abt a Giuseppe Antonio Da Ré or De Ré.. as a well in the ten index nobody Giuseppe Antonio born in 1871...


It is a mystery... seeming a error of clerk...
suanj


Suanj, thank you so much again. I didn't even know about these records you linked to (this whole family/genealogy thing is new to me).

So it seems that Giobbe Antonio da Ré is the correct one, because you couldn't find the other in the records. So the De Ré one must have been an error that got into the archive of Caneva.

What is very strange, is that all the documents of the family here in Brazil are De Ré: Giobbe's marriage certificate, my wife's grandmother's certificate, etc... Why would that be?

And, one other strange thing: My wife's grandmother said to my wife that in the past her father (Giobbe of 1871) had said to her "Our family name is De Ré, not Da Ré!". I don't know why he would have said this to her, but it is interesting.

My wife can have all the Brazilian documents changed by law to Da Ré, but I'm very afraid that if she goes to Italy to start the procedure to get the Italian passport they won't accept if it by any chance should have been De Ré after all. :?
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Re: Two birth certificates of one person - Which one is corr

Postby suanj » 20 Nov 2013, 21:47

Hi, abt Giobbe, for to obtain the italian citizenship ,it need only to make amendment of surname... By my experience... most part of italian surnames changed in foreign countries.... So I believe that is no a problem for your wife... also because just a Giobbe was born in Caneva and the other data that you have abt Giobbe are all rights (I guess) so seems to me that is not a big problem... From Caneva you must request the birth certificate abt Giobbe.. and to make the surname amendment... I believe no problem....
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Re: Two birth certificates of one person - Which one is corr

Postby Vargen » 20 Nov 2013, 23:45

Thanks again suanj!

Da Ré it is then. It's what Caneva sent us and looking at the records you showed it's the most logical. Yes, also many names changed when people emigrated to other countries. I was surprised about that!
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Re: Two birth certificates of one person - Which one is corr

Postby suanj » 21 Nov 2013, 06:59

:D
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