BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HELP!

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BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HELP!

Postby 113yearslater » 23 Jan 2014, 21:15

Hello to all! I've got a real corker of a problem in front of me -- sorry this is so long. Also sorry it's so frustrated sounding. :-(

I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on how to chase down images of a passenger manifest that has been so badly indexed that even EllisIsland.org doesn't show the right image, and the NARA Italians to America database search page is no help.

I believe I MAY have found a (badly misspelled) name that belongs to an ancestor of mine. There is a good chance that the name "Nicola Pastetto" at EllisIsland.org is actually Nicola Pistilli, for whom I have been searching for some time. He is shown as having left on the Trojan Prince on 4/14/1902. (I'm VERY confident that this name is wrong since a search at gens.info for that surname in modern Italy returns no results as spelled. Other names on this supposed manifest have also been horribly mangled as well, so someone really blew it indexing this thing. I mean, "Panasoti Costaki?" "Guiseppe Ascolye?" Really?)

However, the manifest image that the Ellis website shows is one for the Saxonia which left Queensland 4/4/1902. Clicking back and forth on "previous" and "next" returns NO images of a manifest for the Trojan Prince having left Naples on 4/14.

A search at the NARA website shows that there is one manifest for the Trojan Prince which left Genoa on 4/14, but none from Naples on that date. The closest Naples departure for that ship was on 2/16/1902.

To make matters worse, one NARA search form gives me a manifest identification number for the 2/16 Naples departure that the other search form doesn't recognize!

Does anyone have any guidelines for how to untangle this and get hold of a manifest image for something that has apparently been so badly indexed that even Ellis Island and the National Archives can't seem to keep it straight? I've been having a terrible time finding this one ancestor, and I'd dearly love to actually lay eyes on a scan of this actual manifest if it exists. Given that neither site can seem to reconcile where it left from and when, I can't even begin to figure out what some anonymous indexer was even looking at while indexing, but this record belongs to somebody.

Again, sorry this is so long and that I sound so frustrated. Thanks so much for any advice anyone can give me.

tl;dr -- Trying to find scanned image of horribly badly misindexed passenger manifest that neither EllisIsland.org nor NARA website can manage. Help?

UPDATE: I should also specify that I've search in every conceivable way for a Nicola Pistilli. Ellis, Stephen Morse's search at JewishGen, the NARA databases, FamilySearch. Every possible wildcard you can imagine with no positive results. I have managed to find his brothers, whose names were also mangled almost beyond recognition, so I'm confident that if he were among the low-hanging fruit, I'd have found him. This is part of why this record intrigues me so much. I've already aimed for ALL of the low-hanging fruit, and some which required stepladder, and come up empty. At this point, he's probably embedded in a manifest someplace that is precisely as mixed-up as this one appears to be.
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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby erudita74 » 23 Jan 2014, 21:32

search by using www.stevemorse.org website

go to the third option down which is Missing Manifests

Once on that put in April 10, 1902 for the date, and then T715, Roll 267, and frame 425. (this frame is the start of the manifest images for the Trojan Prince. You will now have to hit the + 1, 2, 3, or 4, to advance the frames and look for the passenger you need.

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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby jennabet » 24 Jan 2014, 15:29

I would look for a naturalization record for your ancestor. I learned from my grand-father's US naturalization record that he sailed from Naples in February 1910 on a ship called "Florida" and arrived at Ellis Island in March 1910. However, I personally, could never find my grand-father's record on that ship because his name was so garbled with only the first three letters being correct. When I finally realized the garbled name had to be him, the rest of the information in the record made perfect sense -- but first I had to get past that garbled name.
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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby 113yearslater » 24 Jan 2014, 19:21

These are great -- thank you so much erudita74 and jennabet. I will go through that manifest with a fine-toothed comb this weekend and see if I can chase him down. I don't think he was ever naturalized, though -- he couldn't read or write, and while I was able to find one of his brothers and his niece my grandmother's naturalization records (and my mom actually has my grandmother's naturalization certificate) I've found nothing for anyone else on that side of the family.

I'm actually interested in pursuing Italian dual citizenship through that side as well -- neither of my grandparents were citizens when my mom was born in 1934, and I don't think my grandfather ever became one ... That's another topic, though.

Thanks so much!
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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby 113yearslater » 24 Jan 2014, 19:22

I'm also curious -- what ARE these "missing manifests" and why are they not on the Ellis website when it looks like they aren't actually missing?
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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby Biff83 » 24 Jan 2014, 19:30

I was able to locate the page of the manifest in question on Ancestry but am having trouble with posting the image from imageshack. Perhaps someone else can post for you.

http://interactive.ancestry.com/7488/NY ... turnRecord

Line 18
Nicola Pastetter
Arrival Date:14 Apr 1902
Birth Date:abt 1882
Age:20
Gender:Male
Ethnicity/ Nationality:Italian
Port of Departure:Napoli
Port of Arrival:New York, New York
Ship Name:Trojan Prince

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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby Biff83 » 24 Jan 2014, 19:38

I don't believe this is the person you are seeking. I'm seeing surname Paoletta/Paoletti.


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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby 113yearslater » 24 Jan 2014, 19:45

Ah, okay. Blast. :-(
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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby Biff83 » 24 Jan 2014, 19:48

Could this be your Nicola? Born about 1877; arrived NY 1900 on Tartar Prince.

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0017

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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby 113yearslater » 24 Jan 2014, 20:00

Nope -- mine arrived later than that and was born 1880-1881. Was headed toward Philadelphia and came from Atessa, Chieti, Abruzzi. May have been listed as meeting up with a brother named Aniceto or Domenico. A census record for him states that his immigration was 1905, which isn't conclusive given how dates can wander around in those records, but 1900 is a bit early for him I think.

Thanks for looking though. :-)
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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby suanj » 28 Jan 2014, 19:13

Hi, I cannot find your Nicola... but it could be that his full first name was Giuseppe Nicola? I found a Giuseppe Pistilli coming from Atessa with little sister Maria 7 old arrived in USA on Dec 03, 1903 joining at brother Domenico in Philadelphia PA

First Name: Giuseppe
Last Name: Pistilli
Ethnicity: Italy, Italian South
Last Place of Residence: Atessa
Date of Arrival: Dec 03, 1903
Age at Arrival: 21y Gender: M Marital Status: S
Ship of Travel: Citta di Napoli
Port of Departure: Napoli
Manifest Line Number: 0012

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0012
I believe that the below record could be abt your Nicola.. the surname is misspelled but no doubt that is the your ancestor living with Herry ( in other census Henry is Harry or Aniceto)
1910 United States Federal Census about Nicholas Pastrelo
Name: Nicholas Pastrelo (Pistilli)
Age in 1910: 27
Birth Year: abt 1883
Birthplace: Italy
Home in 1910: Philadelphia Ward 1, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1904
Relation to Head of House: Brother
Marital status: Single
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Pastrelo 38
Rose Pastrelo 42
Clara Pastrelo 12
Nicholas Pastrelo 10
Ida Pastrelo 8
Louis Pastrelo 6
Michael Pastrelo 1
[1 11/12]
Nicholas Pastrelo 27

just a suggestion.. regards,
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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby 113yearslater » 28 Jan 2014, 20:38

Yes, I had found that Giuseppe, but I have no idea if Giuseppe was his real name. I do have his WWII draft registration, and it says Nicola, and my mom's family never called him anything but Nicola. (His nickname was Zigol, as a short version of Zio Nicol.) Everything else I've ever found for him also lists Nicola/Nicholas as his first name as well.

He was however a stonecutter, and I recall that Giuseppe is listed in that manifest as a mason.

I have no idea who their little sister was, either. This is part of why I'm so anxious to find records from Atessa, because I know that there was a sister in the family, but according to my mom, they never talked about her and I have no idea how old she was. It would clear up so many things for me on that side of the family if only I could start to do research in the Atessa civil records.

I'm also anxious to find him because my mom speaks so lovingly and affectionately about Zigol. He died before I was born, as did her parents and grandparents, and yet they have had such a huge presence in my life.

Thank you so much for looking into this, and thank you VERY much for the 1910 census information! That is definitely my great-grandparents and their kids; the names are all grossly misspelled, but they are misspelled in what appears to be the "right" way. (Aniceto is definitely my great-grandfather. He hated the name and preferred the name "Harry," which is what his coworkers called him.)

Thank you again -- it's very kind of you to do all that work!
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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby 113yearslater » 28 Jan 2014, 20:42

Hm, you know though -- there are some strange things in that 1910 census. One kid is missing (my grandmother's older brother Emidio), and to my knowledge she did NOT have a younger brother named Nicholas. Aniceto and Rosina's kids were Emidio, Carmela, Irene, Lusio, and Mike. (I think his name was Lusio; they called him Lutzi. He was a kind of a jerk.) I can see how Carmela and Irene might be misread as Clara and Ida at least, but Emidio is missing and there is another Nicholas. Hm, the mystery deepens ...
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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby Biff83 » 28 Jan 2014, 21:00

Philadelphia Marriage Indexes

Name:Giordano
Spouse's Name: Maria Pistilli
Event Year:1916
License Number:350410
Image Number:00217
Digital Folder Number:4141908

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Re: BADLY misindexed passenger manifest driving me crazy HEL

Postby suanj » 28 Jan 2014, 22:24

I believe that Emidio was called Nicholas in 1910 census... you can see the his birth record ( names misspelled):
Enurdes Pistilli, "Pennsylvania, Philadelphia City Births, 1860-1906"
Name: Enurdes Pistilli
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: 27 Dec 1899
Event Place: Philadelphia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
Gender: Male
Race: W
Father's Name: Knicet Pistilli
Father's Titles and Terms:
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Rosina
Mother's Titles and Terms:
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Note:
Additional Relatives:
Registration Date:
Registration Place:
Reference ID: bk 1899 p 377
GS Film number: 1289339
Digital Folder Number: 004183443
Image Number: 00175
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V1MS-H5Y
Clara and Carmela are same person... Irene=Ida
Louis= Lusio ( Lucio in italian)
Aniceto became Henry, Rosina= Rose
1910 census link:
http://interactive.ancestry.com/7884/44 ... turnRecord
I believe that they are the right family... and I believe that also the ship's manifest is right... abt little Maria I know no who was, but on the ship's manifest she is listed Giuseppe's sister...
the WII draft registration card is ok.. I also found it...
but you have the WWI draft registration card? maybe it can be helpful..
regards,
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