Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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toasty
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Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby toasty » 31 Dec 2014, 10:50

Hi everyone,

I've posted this issue on a different website/message board, so to those of you who read both, apologies for the repetition.

To make a long story short, my citizenship was recognized in June 2014 by the Consulate of San Francisco. I obtained my atto di nascita from my comune shortly thereafter, in August 2014. Some time between August 2014 and December 2014, the prefetto in the province where my comune is located blocked my registration in AIRE and supposedly sent my paperwork to the Ministero dell'Interno for rejection/investigation. I was not notified of this and neither was the consulate. I only found out when trying to establish residency in Italy.

The topic has been discussed at length on the other forum, BUT I thought I'd post here to see if anyone out there has had a similar experience?

In addition, does anyone know what databases are searched when a questura has to issue a nulla osta per an italian passport?

thanks in advance and happy new year everyone!

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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby TerraLavoro » 31 Dec 2014, 17:25

Thank you for informing this board of your experience.

What is/was the nature of the objection to your recognition? Has the Interior Ministry been heard from yet?
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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby toasty » 31 Dec 2014, 17:32

Hi TerraLavoro - The nature of the objection isn't quite clear since the person blocking it has yet to supply an official reason to myself or the SF consulate. She's only told me her reasons over the phone, which were entirely wrong (that you can't go back more than 2 generations and military service in the USA breaks the chain of citizenship). As far as I know the MI hasn't responded, but then again, I have no real way of knowing.

If anyone has any insight or similar experience please let me know (or if anyone has any connections to anyone at the prefect in Agrigento...)

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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby TerraLavoro » 31 Dec 2014, 18:13

How odd that the local police would want to take this position........against the opinion of a Consulate!! You may have to consider engaging an attorney......what a hassle.
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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby toasty » 31 Dec 2014, 18:23

Hi TerraLavoro - yes I've already reached out to one who said this does happen now and again. But I'm obviously not excited to pay 2,000+ euros for something that shouldn't have happened in the first place!

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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby TerraLavoro » 31 Dec 2014, 18:42

Maybe better to spend on a trip to Rome, to meet with a person at the Interior Ministry who could order that this be fixed for you. At least you could fold in some good time there. Hope this works out in your favor, I can imagine your frustration. Good luck!
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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby toasty » 31 Dec 2014, 18:48

If i could I would! I live in Italy and would happily take a trip down to Rome if that would solve it. But unfortunately there's no one I can talk to there, it's like a walled fortress and I don't even have a case number (the woman at the prefect refused to give it to me).

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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby TerraLavoro » 31 Dec 2014, 22:15

See this link from the Ministry's web page:

http://www.interno.gov.it/sites/default ... civico.pdf

It couldn't hurt to approach them yourself. Also, perhaps you could contact the representatives in Parliament for the North America overseas district to see if they might assist you in any way.
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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby toasty » 01 Jan 2015, 15:31

Thanks TerraLavoro, I'll give it a try

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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby jennabet » 03 Jan 2015, 11:41

TerraLavoro wrote:How odd that the local police would want to take this position........against the opinion of a Consulate!! You may have to consider engaging an attorney......what a hassle.


I don't see anything odd about it. My Questura would be doing a good job for the citizens of it's municipality if it refused to issue a passport to a person that does not have residency and came to Italy on an American passport claiming to be an Italian citizen but without sufficient proof. An Italian birth certificate does not prove citizenship. For example, many people are born in Italy to foreign parents. They are issued a birth certificate but they are not citizens.

I would advise that a person should make sure the recognition process is complete, including obtaining a passport, before coming to Italy if their intention is to remain in Italy as a citizen. Once you are no longer in the jurisdiction of your consulate, it's difficult to obtain help from the consulate.

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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby toasty » 03 Jan 2015, 12:02

Certainly the questura is doing their job here. It's the prefect of agrigento that isn't. They are only to intervene in citizenship by marriage cases.

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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby jennabet » 03 Jan 2015, 12:36

Ciao Toasty. I think if you had arrived with your Italian passport it may have spared you the hassle you're experiencing now. When I was recognized years ago, the day that I went to apply for my Italian passport, the consul asked me if I wanted to be registered in that consulate's AIRE. I told her that as soon as I received my passport, I was moving to Italy so she said it would not be necessary for me to be registered in AIRE. I then came to Abruzzo and obtained residency in a commune other than my ancestral commune (also in Abruzzo) and had no problems doing so.

Fast forward ten years. I went back to USA and helped my boyfriend obtain his recognition through the San Francisco consulate, which they granted to him in less than six weeks. He also obtained his passport before we flew back to Abruzzo together. He then obtained immediate residency (with me) in a commune other than his original commune and in a different region. His original commune is in Catanzaro.

I know you have mentioned that the commune must first register you in AIRE before the passport can be issued but based on what I've said above about my own situation when my passport was issued, I don't know if that is entirely correct. I hope things work out soon in your favor.

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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby toasty » 03 Jan 2015, 13:14

Hi Jennabet,

Thank you for this - honestly it really is helpful to hear.

Funny enough, I DID ask the consulate about the AIRE registration before I left, and they told me the exact same thing they told you. They said basically just switch residence from my ancestors' comune to the one I want to live in. Just that in my case there apparently were issues that no one knew about. As your story indicates, the issue in my case, then, isn't really about the AIRE registration at all, but about registration in the comune to begin with (in some other database).

In any case though, I'm not sure that having a passport really helps me here. Even with a passport issued by the SF consulate, I'm still in all databases in Italy as a foreign national, can't establish residency, can't get a carta d'identita, and can't get a tessera sanitaria.

Thanks again, I appreciate the words of support!

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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby Italy » 09 Jan 2015, 12:47

toasty wrote:The topic has been discussed at length on the other forum, BUT I thought I'd post here to see if anyone out there has had a similar experience?


Mind posting a link to the discussion with more detail?

This sounds like the kind of completely asinine, bureaucratic nightmare scenario that I couldn't even imagine dealing with after moving across the ocean and thinking you're a citizen, only to learn that some drooling clerk or rubber-stamper has stonewalled your paperwork. Unreal.

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Re: Citizenship recognized, then blocked

Postby toasty » 10 Jan 2015, 15:14

Sure, no problem, here you go: http://italiancitizenship.freeforums.or ... t6827.html

As an update, I was able to get my passport from my local questura with the help of the San Francisco consulate. Hopefully that will help me move things along on the residence/carta d'identita'/carta sanitaria front!


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