Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

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Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby ricbru » 09 Jul 2005, 21:14

Hello everyone,
I want to share with you an experience.
I have been searching for Nicolò Bruno 1904 passengers list, arriving at Ellis Island.
There was no way to find it, using any device, maybe the name was misspelled or something.
Nothing found for two years, nothing on line at all.
So I decided to fill up NARA 81 form, and after 2 weeks I got a bad fotocopy of passenger list.
Nicolò Bruno, from Trapani, 12 years old, left Naples on October 1st, 1904 arrived at Ellis Island on October 19th, 1904.
So I called my very good friend Raffaella, that, with a lot of patience, using www.stevemorse.org, found the passenger list...but any names of that page is not transcribed at all, the sistem doesn't recognized any of it!!!!
So my questions are:
are we forced to give our money to NARA to have copies of passengers list that are on line not trinscribed?
why Ellis Island put on line passengers lists not triscribed?
p.s. the on line passengers list is very readable and light
bye Riccardo
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Re: Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby VaDeb » 09 Jul 2005, 21:48

Hi Ricbru,

You are dealing with two totally different agencies.

Ellis Island (www.ellisisland.org) is a web site that has nothing to do with the government. Familysearch.org is one of its sponsors along with many others. The indexing of names was done by volunteers and the site is FREE. It does have its limitations in search criteria and has some mislinked images. It is possible, that even with all the checking and double checking some names were not indexed..

The site by Dr. MOrse you mentioned it WONDERFUL. I use it all the time. Better search features that Ellis Island. And his page to find missing or mislinked manifests is a godsend.

NARA is the National Archives and Records Administration. It is a government organization funded through tax dollars. They are the custodian for many documents. When they search for passengers they use indexes, many of which were created by the WPA. The WPA was a put people to work program created during the great depression.

No one is forced to give money to NARA for records that are not transcribed. YOu can order the indexes and then the microfilm of the ship records and find the passengers yourself if you choose. NARA sends the best copies of documents available. Often what they are trying to copy is not in great shape.

NARA does respond to every request it gets, usually in a very timely fashion. Do the various provincial archves in Italy do this? I have read many times of people writing to provincial archives to request information and responses are not answered or takes forever. I feel the fees NARA charges are reasonable. It is a service to help those who can not visit a NARA repository and find the information themselves.

I understand your fustration. But NARA has nothing to do with the ELLIS ISLAND site.

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Re: Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby ricbru » 10 Jul 2005, 02:56

Dear Debbie,
I already knew that NARA and Ellis Island Foundation are two different things.
But the thing I don't understand is why volounteers don't triscribe all the passengers list that are on line.
The copy I received from NARA is worst than the copy on line from Ellis Island.
I know the fee for a copy is reasonable, but if the copies are all on line they should be all triscribed!!!
I know many people complain about the copies not arriving from italian provincial archives, but I think sometimes people write in their own language (english) and put wrong infos.
Italian enployees of gov offices are not required to know foreign languages.
How come if I write in italian to NARA without using the right form?
I guess NARA would not even understand what it is written on it!
bye ricbru
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Re: Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby VaDeb » 10 Jul 2005, 06:52

Hi Ricbru,

You are perfectly correct that if someone writes to an Italian archive in a language other than Italian they should not expect a reply.

Ellis Island website has been a tremendous help for those searching for their ancestors. It is fustrating when a page is not transcribed, but errors are bound to occur with such a huge undertaking. Hopefully, when such errors are identified Ellis Island site is notified so they can take steps to correct the oversite.

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Re: Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby mfjp » 10 Jul 2005, 11:55

Hi Ricbru...

I also followed the search for Nicolo...

Thought I would link them here for those interested and for those who followed this search.

What an interesting voyage! LOTS of detained Italian people on this set of manifests...

Nicolo is clearly on line 19. And Dionisio is also on line 16, and DONATO is on line 26... with the notation of "ADMITTED" next to his name... :?

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8919/nicman6ur.jpg

But I think they were ALL held for Special Inquiry see “CAUSE OF DETENTIONâ€Â
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Re: Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby mfjp » 10 Jul 2005, 12:11

Message to Debbie,

"Bookmarked" this page for the wonderful information you posted...
As mentioned to you before... not only are you a great researcher, but a great teacher. :P

All the best,
Maria
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Re: Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby ricbru » 10 Jul 2005, 15:14

Dear Maria,
thank you so much for this new record of my research!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Now I have some questions:
what does it mean "PMCD to destination" ? :roll:
what could be the reason for other inquery to be admitted?
Yes Donato is a brother of Francesco Paolo, I also found his birth certificate at the archive.
Since Ellis Island has not trascribed the entire passengers lists, last week I sent NARA 81 form for Francesco Paolo Bruno 1902 passengers list.
Thank you so much again!!! :lol: :lol:
Wish me good luck!
bye ricbru
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Re: Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby VaDeb » 10 Jul 2005, 17:41

Hi Ricbru,

Here is a website that explains some of the manifest markings found when aliens were held for special inquiry.

http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/manifests/bsi/

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Re: Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby ricbru » 10 Jul 2005, 19:16

Thanks a lot Debbie, have a good day, bye riccardo :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby mfjp » 11 Jul 2005, 02:47

Hi Riccardo,

Sent a letter to one of my hero's, Dr. Morse. Could you imagine how difficult it would be to search for manifests if we didn't have his site??

I tried looking for the "PMCD" info... and found nothing... I want to know too...

As soon as I hear back, I will reply. I also sent Dr. Morse a link to this post.

-----
Should be interesting to see where Francesco Paolo Bruno's manifest is! At least it helps us figure out why he is difficult to find...
-----

Avete cacciato il vino?
maria
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Re: Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby DonnaPellegrin » 11 Jul 2005, 07:40

Maria,
The nacent labor movement in the US in the early 1900s pushed through laws making it illegal for companies to go abroad and hire immigrant labor. So, Italian immigrants needed to answer "no" when they were asked if they had a job waiting for them in the United States.

I'm not sure what the PMCD means either. Perhaps it was a combination of PD, MD and CD.

Ricbru,
I have ordered manifests from NARA several times also. I believe the poor copies are a result of printer limitations. The LDS Family History Center where I make my copies from microfilm has the best digital printer available for this work... and still the paper copies are never as clear as the microfilm images.
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Re: Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby mfjp » 11 Jul 2005, 09:24

Hi Donna,

Thank you for your reply... it certainly paints a better picture... :!:

Dr. Morse replied and wasn't sure himself what the PMCD meant...

Perhaps it was a combination of PD, MD and CD.


Does sound logical, Donna.

I will go back to the manifest pages and see if there is an expanded version of this.... can certainly understand why abbreviations are necessary... especially when many people were detained.... and many needed to be processed...

The "Too late for boat" does sound interesting too...

Once again, thank you!
Maria
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Re: Ellis Island passengers list not triscribed

Postby ricbru » 11 Jul 2005, 12:40

Thank you very much Donna and Maria.
About FHL in Trento, I have to wait 3 months for a microfilm, and has not device for copies or anything to save copy in a cd.
I have a manual device to let it around to see the microfilm, I hope NARA gives me good news about my great-granfather Francesco Paolo
Bye riccardo
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