enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby GlobeTrotter » 16 Aug 2005, 03:32

Hello,

I have just recently found out that I qualify for dual citizenship. I have all the necessary documents needed to obtain the citizenship except for my great-grandparents birth certificates from Italy. I am attempting to research and locate these documents, but the truth is, I'm just not sure if I have enough information to locate the exact ones. I was wondering if somebody here might be able to point me in the right direction or offer any assistance. I would be very grateful!
My great-grandfather was said to have come to America from Palermo. Whether or not he was born in Palermo or the surrounding area, I unfortunately don't know. I'm also not certain when he came to America, only that it must have been before 1911 because that is the year printed on his american marriage certificate. His approximate year of birth is 1880. His name was Giuseppe Marchese, his father had the same name (Giuseppe), and his mother's maiden-name was Giuseppa/Giuseppina Lorcia. I think my great-grandfather had 3 brothers: Anthony, Salvatore, and William. Would this be enough information to locate my great-grandfather's birth certificate?
I suppose locating my great-grandmother's birth certificate may prove to be more difficult. Her name was Maria/Marietta Pelletieri (although I have seen minor variations in the spelling of the surname) and she was born on approx. on Aug. 29th 1883/4, I believe. Would it be impossible to find her birth certificate with just this information?
I am eager to become a dual citizen and any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much!

Mark

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby VaDeb » 16 Aug 2005, 03:41

HI Mark,

If we can find an immigration record, it will hopefully give us a city in Italy to look for a birth record.

Census records (USA) are done every 10 years and give citizenship status and year of immigration. Have you looked for a census? If not, we need details about the family to locate them on the 1930 census.

husband: Giuseppe Marchese born in 1880
wife: Giuseppa born in 1883/1884
names of children
where did they live in 1930? (state, county, city if known)

Get back with the details and we will see what we can find.

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby GlobeTrotter » 16 Aug 2005, 04:06

Hi VaDeb,

On my great-grandfather's death certificate (Giuseppe Marchese), it says he was born in 1880 and he died in 1924. He wasn't naturalized until 1923. He was married to Maria/Marrietta Marchese (maiden name: Pelletieri) and he had 5 daughters: Josephine, Felicia, filippina, Florence, and Yolanda. His parents' names were Giuseppe Marchese and Giuseppa Marchese (maiden name: Lorcia).
On my great-grandfather's naturalization paper's (from the 25th Sept, 1923), it says that he resided on 10 East Thomas Street, Miners Mills, Pennsylvania.

*his brother, William Marchese, signed the death certificate (1924) and resided at 157 N Main Street, Old Forge, Pennsylvania.

I hope this information helps a bit. Thank you for all the help!!

Mark

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby VaDeb » 16 Aug 2005, 04:39

That's great you have his naturalization papers. Do they list the date and place he entered the US? Do they give the city in Italy he was born in?

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby VaDeb » 16 Aug 2005, 04:51

Name: Joseph Marchese
Age: 39 years
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Birthplace: Italy
Race: White
Home in 1920: Miners Mills, Luzerne, Pennsylvania

Here is the image. Is it your family? Shows he arrived in 1897 and naturalized in 1904.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1797/19205dw.jpg

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby GlobeTrotter » 16 Aug 2005, 06:23

Hi Debbie,

Thank you for that priceless information! Yes, that is my family. However, I do not understnad why on that site you gave me it says that Joseph Marchese was naturalized in 1904, when on his naturalization certificate I have, it reads 1923. How do I know which date is correct? My grandmother, Josephine, was born in 1912. If her father (Joseph Marchese) was naturalized in 1904 before her birth, then I know I wouldn't be eligible for dual citizenship. However, if the date 1923 on the naturalization certificate which I have is correct, then I would be. Are these kinds of errors in those days typical?
Could we still find out what town in Italy Joseph Marchese is from? Thank you, Debbie!

Mark

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby VaDeb » 16 Aug 2005, 06:56

If you have his naturalization papers, then that date should be the correct date. Who knows why folks gave the information they did to census takers. Do the naturalization papers have his place of birth or when and where he entered the US listed? Do you have his declaration of intent, also known as first papers?

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby GlobeTrotter » 16 Aug 2005, 12:34

Joseph Marchese's naturalization certificate unfortunately fails to mention from where he came and when. I also don't have any first papers, but here is the information that I have from the certificate:

"Be it remembered that Giuseppe Marchese, then residing at number 10 East Thomas Street, City of Miners Mills, State of Pennsylvania, who previous to his naturalization was a citizen of Italy, having applied to be admitted a citizen of the United States of America pursuant to law, and of a Regular term of the District Court of the United States, held at Scranton, on the 25th day of September, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and twenty-three, the court having found that the petitioner had resided continuously within the united States for at least five year and in this State for at least one year immediately preceeding the date of the filing of his petition, and that said petitioner intends to reside permanently in the United States, had in all respects complied with the law in relation thereto, and that he was entitled to be so admitted, it was thereupon ordered by the said court that he be admitted as a citizen of the United States of America.
In testimony whereof the seal of said court is hereunto affixed on the 25th day of September, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and twenty-three, and of our Independence the one hundred and forty-eighth."

The certificate also mentions the names and ages of Joseph's daughters at the time of his naturalization, but fails to mention his wife. The certificate also gives a brief physical description of Joseph.

I hope this can prove useful in our search. If this doesn't get us the information we need, maybe we could find some from Joseph's brother, William Marchese, who resided at 157 N. Main Street, Old Forge, Pennsylvania in 1924. (He signed Joseph's death certificate in 1924)
Thank you for your persistance!

Mark

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby VaDeb » 16 Aug 2005, 14:57

Name: William Marcase
Age: 34 years
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Birthplace: Italy
Race: White
Home in 1920: Old Forge, Lackawanna, Pennsylvania
Arrived in 1907 or 1913 and was an alien in 1920

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8968/19304yw.jpg

1930 census
Name: William Marchese
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to head-of-house: Head
Spouse's Name: Rose Marchese
Race: White
arrived in 1905 and is naturalized

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2772/march2kv.jpg

Now that I have some dates to work wtih I will look for passenger records.
Here is a site to look for passenger records

http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB/ellis.html

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby VaDeb » 16 Aug 2005, 18:35

Haven't had any luck finding a passenger record.

You can file a FOIA with USCIS. They have a copy of all documents since 1906. Request a copy of the entire file. You should recieve the declaration of intent and the application for naturalization. I have done this for 4 of my realatives. Can take from a couple weeks to several months. Was never charged any $ for the information. I don't think you can get William's file as you are not a direct descendant.

You do know they were naturalized through the US District Court held in Scranton. This is a federal court. If you do some research and find out where the archives for these records, you should be able to get them there.

I believe PA records can be found at the NARA regional facility in Mass.

http://www.archives.gov/northeast/waltham

I have a cousin who lives near Scranton and has done alot of research on family from this area at the archives above. He has said wonderful things about the facility and the staff. You can send a written request. If they have the naturalization records they will send them to you for a fee. Usually much quicker then INS. If you do this, also send in a request for William's naturalization records.

Here is information about naturalization records found at the archives.
http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/naturalization/

Other sources of the place of birth. You can look for WWI draft registration cards. They should contain the town of birth.

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby VaDeb » 16 Aug 2005, 18:45

I forgot that WWI for PA are online at ancestry. I think this second card is your Joseph. Unfortunately, it does not have the town in Italy. Also note there is another Giuseppe in Luzerne County, close in age to your Joseph. You need to keep that in mind as you evaluate documents you find.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7550/wwig0nt.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/563/wwij2vp.jpg

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby GlobeTrotter » 16 Aug 2005, 21:29

Wow! Debbie, thank you so much for all the helpful websites and research!!

Should I also file to receive any documents about Joseph's wife? I'm not sure if she was from the same city in Italy as Joseph.

Mark

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby VaDeb » 16 Aug 2005, 21:58

Hi Mark,

I looked for her in the 1930 census. Do you know when she died? Did she remarry after her husband died?

She is right on the cusp of when things changed. Before Sept. 22, 1922 women derived citizenship through their father or husband. If either became a citizen, they automatically did. If a women was a citizen (by birth) and married an alien they lost their citizenship. So you can request her paperwork. Since Joseph was naturalized after 1922, technically his wife would have been naturalized on her own accord. But, his petition or first papers would have been filed several years eariler, under the old ruling. All this happened after 1906, so technically the government would have a record.

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby GlobeTrotter » 16 Aug 2005, 22:23

I have Maria Marchese's naturalization certificate, too, which states that she became naturalized on July 1st, 1944. At that time she was living at 3243 Steinway Street, Astoria, Long Island, N.Y. Her certificate has the name Scranton on it also. She lived to be 99 yrs. and never remarried.

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Re: enough info to obtain birth certificates?

Postby VaDeb » 16 Aug 2005, 22:46

http://www.archives.gov/northeast/nyc/

Write to the NARA in NY to see if they have the naturalization records for Maria. You can also file a FOIA with USCIS to see what they have. Its great you have all the naturalization certificates. You just need to get copies of the paperwork, or applications. They should contain where and when the immigrant entered the US.


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