Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
eshipman
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Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Postby eshipman » 08 Dec 2015, 04:54

Hi there! I am brand new to this forum but am hoping someone will be able to help me out!

I have just found out my great-grandfather was naturalized before my grandfather was born which really puts a damper on me gaining dual citizenship. My great-great-grandfather never came to America so he was never naturalized.

Would I be able to qualify through my great-great-grandfather?

Thanks!

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mler
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Re: Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Postby mler » 08 Dec 2015, 15:20

Unfortunately, Italian citizenship cannot skip generations. There must be an unbroken line between the Italian citizen and you.

Check the possibilities through your great grandmother. You may be able to pursue citizenship through a 1948 case if that line works. Keep in mind that, depending on dates (birth, marriage, naturalization), she may have obtained Italian citizenship through her husband, if she didn't possess it at birth.

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Re: Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Postby James » 10 Dec 2015, 08:21

eshipman wrote:Hi there! I am brand new to this forum but am hoping someone will be able to help me out!

I have just found out my great-grandfather was naturalized before my grandfather was born which really puts a damper on me gaining dual citizenship. My great-great-grandfather never came to America so he was never naturalized.

Would I be able to qualify through my great-great-grandfather?

Thanks!


Welcome to the forum. What year was your grandfather born? And what year did your great grandfather naturalize? Do you have a copy of the naturalization certificate?
James
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Re: Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Postby wrestep » 12 Dec 2015, 21:05

I have a question about my possibility for qualifying as well. It's a long one... sorry in advance.

My GG Grandfather's name was Biaggio "Ben" Trombatore (Trumbaturi) (born in 1880) and he married Carmela Marie "Mary" Listi (born in 1872) (later on changed to Lester). Mary's father was Filippo Listi and he never naturalized (tlisti on here is his great granddaughter and she was able to obtain citizenship through him) but the 1948 rule confuses me a little bit when it comes to women.

From what I've seen on the 1930 Cencus, my GG Grandfather was still listed as an "Alien", on the 1940 Cencus it showed under "Citizenship" as "having first papers".
Biaggio immigrated to the states through New Orleans in 1906 and applied for Naturalization in 1914, and I haven't found anything indicating that he was granted Naturalization at that time. My G Grandfather was born in 1918, his wife was from Texas (having French & Germany Ancestry, not Italian) and if he wasn't ever Naturalized, that would allow him to have Italian Citizenship. My G Grandfather had a daughter in 1942 (so yay she would qualify for Citizenship too from the 1948 rule!) then she had my dad and then there's me.

My kind of wordy question is... would the 1948 rule apply to Mary IF for some reason I am not able to go through Biaggio for citizenship for any reason? I'm like 90% sure that I can, but I was curious if I would be able to use Filippo Listi as a back up.

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Re: Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Postby James » 15 Dec 2015, 07:33

wrestep wrote:I have a question about my possibility for qualifying as well. It's a long one... sorry in advance.

My GG Grandfather's name was Biaggio "Ben" Trombatore (Trumbaturi) (born in 1880) and he married Carmela Marie "Mary" Listi (born in 1872) (later on changed to Lester). Mary's father was Filippo Listi and he never naturalized (tlisti on here is his great granddaughter and she was able to obtain citizenship through him) but the 1948 rule confuses me a little bit when it comes to women.

From what I've seen on the 1930 Cencus, my GG Grandfather was still listed as an "Alien", on the 1940 Cencus it showed under "Citizenship" as "having first papers".
Biaggio immigrated to the states through New Orleans in 1906 and applied for Naturalization in 1914, and I haven't found anything indicating that he was granted Naturalization at that time. My G Grandfather was born in 1918, his wife was from Texas (having French & Germany Ancestry, not Italian) and if he wasn't ever Naturalized, that would allow him to have Italian Citizenship. My G Grandfather had a daughter in 1942 (so yay she would qualify for Citizenship too from the 1948 rule!) then she had my dad and then there's me.

My kind of wordy question is... would the 1948 rule apply to Mary IF for some reason I am not able to go through Biaggio for citizenship for any reason? I'm like 90% sure that I can, but I was curious if I would be able to use Filippo Listi as a back up.


wrestep, welcome to the forum!

A person born before 01/01/1948 can claim Italian citizenship only from his/her father (who was not a naturalized citizen of another country before his/her child’s birth), and a woman can transfer citizenship only to her children born after 01/01/1948 (if she was not a naturalized citizen of another country before her child’s birth).

If Mary's child was born before 1948 to obtain citizenship by birthright you'd have to fight it in Italy... See the other thread on this subform.

If Mary's child was born after 1948 then the citizenship could have passed through generations and like tlisti you could claim your birth right citizenship.

Hope this answers your question.


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Re: Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Postby wrestep » 16 Dec 2015, 00:40

It wouldn't work for Mary then. Her son (my G Grandpa) was born in 1918, but his father never naturalized.
My Nonna was born in 1942, so I wouldn't be able to obtain citizenship through her? I don't have anything regarding her father (my G Grandpa) naturalizing. So if that's the case then only my dad (Nonna's son) can claim citizenship or could I as well?

It's tricky with women eh?

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Re: Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Postby James » 16 Dec 2015, 23:39

If Mary's son was born in 1918 in America he would not have not been born a citizen of Italy, therefore it wouldn't pass on to you. However that can be fought in court in Italy. Because after 1948 woman like Mary could pass their Italian citizenship to their kids. So essentially you are fighting that it is discriminatory for Mary to not have passed it on. Mary's husband was also from Italy? Because if he was... He could have passed citizenship on.

If your Nonna was born in the USA and her father never naturalized citizenship would have passed on to your Nonna. As long as your dad was born after 1948 then citizenship would have passed from her to him and then to you in turn. This route would not involve courts in Italy and could be done at your local consulate with the required paperwork.

You have to be able to prove that your great grandpa never naturalized or show that he naturalized AFTER your Nonna was born. If you prove that, you seem to have a pretty standard case.
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Re: Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Postby mler » 18 Dec 2015, 23:38

And keep in mind that "1948 cases" have been quite successful albeit more costly. So either way, you should be able to obtain citizenship.

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Re: Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Postby wrestep » 25 Dec 2015, 20:50

Mary wasn't born in Italy (she was born in Lousiana in 1872) but her father was (Filippo Listi or Lester). Mary married Biaggio (born in 1884) who was born in Italy. I think it would be less expensive to go through Biaggio as he was never naturalized (as far as I can tell) and it should be less expensive. I just wanted to double check that IF going through Biaggio failed if I had a chance to go through Mary, and it looks like I do, it's just a more expensive route.

Thank you for your help!!

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Re: Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Postby zennor » 24 May 2016, 13:38

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum and am only just starting to dip my toe into my Italian genealogy. I can't quite figure out if I would qualify for dual citizenship (with UK). At the moment I'm researching purely out of interest. Here's the basic info:

Great great grandfather: Carlos, born in Milan, 1868
Great grandmother: Mimi, born in Lyon, France, 1883
Grandfather: Charles, born in Hong Kong, 1919
Father: Nic, born in Bristol (UK), 1962

Does the fact that Charles was born before 1948 mean I would be ineligible or does that not matter as I would be applying through Carlos?

Thanks in advance for your time!

Zennor

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Re: Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Postby mler » 28 May 2016, 02:43

As long as no one in your line naturalized (in any country) before his child's birth, you qualify. The 1948 issue does not apply if you are going through a male line.

You will need to check naturalization in both the UK and in Hong Kong.

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Re: Dual Citizenship- Do I Qualify?

Postby zennor » 21 Jun 2016, 17:55

Thank you!


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