Is this a normal request from DC consulate? Can I appeal it?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
midoritori2014
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Is this a normal request from DC consulate? Can I appeal it?

Postby midoritori2014 » 07 Feb 2016, 14:25

So I feel that what I'm being asked to gather for the DC consulate is a bit odd.

So DC consulate has changed people you deal with for dual citizenship 3 times during my process. With each person I was done! Then they quit and the new person had *new* criteria for what to gather.

The newest guy has asked for even more stuff. But one in particular I think sounds a bit odd.

So I am trying to get dual citizenship up my paternal line. Me- father- GF- GGF. no women involved.

BUT to complicate matters both my GF and my GGF were married a second time. This was discovered by the man at the consulate while viewing both GF and GGFs death certificates that displayed their second wife's names. I am not related to either women in these second marriages. But he wants me to get marriage certificates for these second marriages for both my GF and my GGF, which is fine, for record purposes for Italy. Ok that much I'm fine with.

But he has also asked me to get the BIRTH CERTIFICATE or DEATH CERTIFICATE of the 2nd woman my GGF was married to. I am not related to this woman. I don't know her date of birth, where she was born. Neither does my family. He was married to this woman for less than 5 or 10 years before he died (and some ppl in family aren't even convinced they marriages at all! Good luck to me finding this marriage certificate either!). Our families have never stayed in contact with this woman (she's been dead for 35 years). Most have never met her. And, I am not legally able to order her birth certificate as I am not her family member. I explained this to him, very nicely, a few times over the phone. He just told me to gather the other stuff, but **cannot garentee that not having her birth/ death certificate won't cost me my Italian citizenship**.

I could see asking for the second marriage certificate of say, my father, who may want to apply for citizenship and would need all his records recorded. But for my GGF?? I don't think he can actually ask for this document. My GGF receives no benefit at registering this information. She is not a family member, and I cannot legally obtain this document (can I?).

I feel too, if the guy knows they won't accept it, why even bother to tell me to get the rest of the paperwork. I asked him on the phone repeatedly "Let's say, hypothetically speaking, if I can't get this document, will I lose my citizenship?" He replies "I can't tell you unless I see the rest of your paperwork. (He had a few months back but I understand doesn't have it in front of him). So I ask, "may I come in then and you evaluate my paperwork and let me know, based on what I have, should I even both to get the other ten documents if my GGF's second wife will throw the whole thing out? I would prefer to know as it will cost be hundreds of dollars to get all the new documents you requested." "No, I don't want you to come in. Just get the documents I requested".

We went in a loop like this for a few minutes and I lost. I feel they should at LEAST look at your stuff and say, "yes you have a chance", or "no don't bother since that second marriage's birth certificate will affect it all. Save your money". It's so much time. So much money. Just a courtesy glance would be so so appreciated.

If he does deny my entire citizenship because of my GGFs second marriage to a woman that has nothing to do with my lineage, can I appeal it somehow? I've spent so much $$$$ on this process and to lose my whole citizenship would be so sad.



Thanks so much

jennabet
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Re: Is this a normal request from DC consulate? Can I appeal it?

Postby jennabet » 07 Feb 2016, 22:02

The Italian government would require information on your GGF's second marriage if that marriage took place outside of Italy, in the United State for example. The reason for this is to confirm whether or not his second wife had been married prior to marrying him and if she had any children from a previous marriage that could falsely try to also claim Italian citizenship through your GGF. If his second marriage had occurred in Italy, they most likely wouldn't ask you for her information as it would be easy to determine.

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mler
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Re: Is this a normal request from DC consulate? Can I appeal it?

Postby mler » 07 Feb 2016, 22:29

Actually, if you trace your line only through first marriages, information on the second marriages is totally irrelevant and has no bearing on your eligibility. This seems to be just another example of consular overreach.

We're I in your position, I would get the documents I could get easily. If he complains, I would simply say that the other documents were not available to me and that, in any case, the missing documents do not affect my eligibility. If he still complains, I would ask to speak with a supervisor, and if that does not get results, I would threaten a lawsuit.

If you have sufficient time and money, you could certainly apply directly in Italy and/or hire an Italian attorney to submit your documents in Italy on your behalf.

Jennebet explained the reason for the document request, and it is a legitimate one. This, however, does not affect your line or your application. If a second wife tries to obtain Italian citizenship for herself or for her children, it would be her responsibility to provide the requested documents. You should not be required to demonstrate the legitimacy of anyone else's claim or potential claim.

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Re: Is this a normal request from DC consulate? Can I appeal it?

Postby jennabet » 07 Feb 2016, 23:05

It sounds like the consulate is also interested in knowing the circumstances of the second marriage, for example if your GGF was a bigamist who may have left a wife in Italy to marry a second woman in the USA. And since you brought it up, it would be up to you to prove otherwise. These things DID happen with immigrants and bigamy is illegal in Italy.
My advice would be to present the consulate everything they're asking for.


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