me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Petrarca
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me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby Petrarca » 03 Nov 2005, 21:42

Hi,

Trying to get it from my great-grandfather via my maternal grandmother!

Me -- 1975 (America)
Mother -- 1955 (America)
Grandmother -- 1915 (America)
Great-grandfather -- 1887 (Italy) naturalized 1931


Has anyone gone this route? Experienced any problems? I have an appointment at the consulat enext week...have all my documents and apostilles..

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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby nicedream » 12 Jan 2006, 23:08

Does anyone know if the previos poster's scenario is possible? I am researching if a similar scenario would make me eligible

Me- 1977 (America)
Mother- 1957 (America)
Grandmother- 1926 (America)
Great Grandfather- 1896 (Italy; unknown at this point if he was ever naturalized, but according to the 1930 census record he was not naturalized at that point. My grandmother was already 4 years old at that time)

Thanks in advance.... :)

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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby tbottegal » 28 Jan 2006, 00:21

This is how I understand it:

Italian law originally did not permit citizenship to pass through the mother.

This law was changed in 1948.

If your mother was an Italian citizen at the time you were born, and you were born after 1948, then citizenship was passed to you. Otherwise, she did not pass Italian citizenship to you.

There must be a continuous line of citizenship back to someone in Italy. If anyone in that line is female and was born before 1948, the line is not continuous and citizenship was not passed.

Where someone was born isn't as important as whether their parent(s) have Italian citizenship at the time they were born. Example: my father was naturalized after I was born (U.S.) and before my brother was born (U.S.). Thus, I am an Italian citizen, but my brother is not.

Perviously, the U.S. naturalization process required an individual to give up any other citizenship. After sometime around the 1970s, an individual could choose to keep their birth citizenship along with their naturalized U.S. citizenship.

Other options:

1) If you have an Italian ancestor within two generations, you can get citizenship by living in Italy for 3 years. Otherwise, it requires 10 years living in Italy.

2) There was a court case in Italy a few years ago where someone was able to claim citizenship through his mother prior to 1948: Court Case (sounds like lawyers get involved $$!).

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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby Nunsiata » 28 Jan 2006, 04:07

Just curious - would Petrarca's scenario work if there were no naturalization and her great-grandfather died an alien?

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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby suanj » 28 Jan 2006, 13:09

Great-grandfather -- 1887 (Italy) naturalized 1931


If he naturalized... it is not possible to obtain italian citizenship...
For sure.

Only if your mother was born in ITALY after 1 Jan 1948 it will be possible to obtain the italian citizenship.
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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby nicedream » 28 Jan 2006, 22:40

suanj wrote:
Great-grandfather -- 1887 (Italy) naturalized 1931


If he naturalized... it is not possible to obtain italian citizenship...
For sure.

Only if your mother was born in ITALY after 1 Jan 1948 it will be possible to obtain the italian citizenship.
Regards, suanj


But wait...he said his grandmother was born in 1915. So since her father was not naturalized at the time ofher birth, wouldn't he pass his right to citizenship to her?

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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby Nunsiata » 28 Jan 2006, 23:45

Exactly. Or if - as I said - he was never naturalized? If you die an alien do your children pass Italian citizenship?

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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby suanj » 29 Jan 2006, 00:03

Italian citizenship is granted by birth through the paternal line (with no limit on the number of generations)
or through the maternal line (for individuals born after January 1, 1948).

If you were born in the United States or any other country where citizenship is acquired by birth, and any one of the situations listed below pertains to you, you may be considered an Italian citizen. For each category all conditions must be met.


1) Your father was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship.


2) Your mother was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth, you were born after January 1st, 1948 and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship.

3) Your father was born in the United States, your paternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of your father's birth, neither you nor your father ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship.


4) Your mother was born in the United States, your maternal grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of her birth, you were born after January 1, 1948 and neither you nor your mother ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship.

5) Your paternal or maternal grandfather was born in the United States, your paternal great grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of his birth, neither you nor your father nor your grandfather ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship (please note: a grandmother born before 01/01/1948 can claim the Italian citizenship only from her father and can transfer it to descendants after 01/01/1948).


NOTE: "Italian citizen at the time of birth" means that he/she did not acquire any other citizenship through naturalization, before the descendant's birth.



source: http://www.italiamerica.org/id72.htm
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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby suanj » 29 Jan 2006, 00:09

and about the reply above:

"Only if your mother was born in ITALY after 1 Jan 1948 it will be possible to obtain the italian citizenship. "

OR:

"2) Your mother was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth, you were born after January 1st, 1948 and you never renounced your right to Italian citizenship. "
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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby nicedream » 29 Jan 2006, 00:30

Look at #5:

(please note: a grandmother born before 01/01/1948 can claim the Italian citizenship only from her father and can transfer it to descendants after 01/01/1948).

This seems to apply in the above case.

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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby Nunsiata » 29 Jan 2006, 01:11

I get it now. The website was very helpful, as well.
Thanks, all!

N

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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby suanj » 29 Jan 2006, 12:17

nicedream wrote:Look at #5:

(please note: a grandmother born before 01/01/1948 can claim the Italian citizenship only from her father and can transfer it to descendants after 01/01/1948).

This seems to apply in the above case.

if the father never renounced...
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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby nicedream » 29 Jan 2006, 22:54

suanj wrote:
nicedream wrote:Look at #5:

(please note: a grandmother born before 01/01/1948 can claim the Italian citizenship only from her father and can transfer it to descendants after 01/01/1948).

This seems to apply in the above case.

if the father never renounced...


In several places that I have read, the criteria is if he renounced at the time of her birth.

I have read stories about siblings, where some are eligible and some are not, because some were born before their father's naturalization, and some were born after.

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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby suanj » 29 Jan 2006, 23:31

My opinion is on :

Me- 1977 (America)
Mother- 1957 (America)
Grandmother- 1926 (America)
Great Grandfather- 1896 (Italy; unknown at this point if he was ever naturalized, but according to the 1930 census record he was not naturalized at that point. My grandmother was already 4 years old at that time)

and on

Me- 1977 (America)
Mother- 1957 (America)
Grandmother- 1926 (America)
Great Grandfather- 1896 (Italy; unknown at this point if he was ever naturalized, but according to the 1930 census record he was not naturalized at that point. My grandmother was already 4 years old at that time)


that the grandMOTHER because women borns before 1948 they cannot give the italian citizenship..

However if you think so, i respect all opinions..

what that let me perplexed is this desire of italian descendants of to obtain now the italian citizenship..

after many years that the ancestor was emigrated..... it could be a great feeling for the Italy or this desire have other reasons?

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Re: me-mother-grandmother-great-grandfather

Postby nicedream » 30 Jan 2006, 01:23

suanj wrote:that the grandMOTHER because women borns before 1948 they cannot give the italian citizenship..

However if you think so, i respect all opinions..

what that let me perplexed is this desire of italian descendants of to obtain now the italian citizenship..

after many years that the ancestor was emigrated..... it could be a great feeling for the Italy or this desire have other reasons?

suanj


I believe that the law states that women could not pass Italian citizenship to their children until 1948. They could still inherit it from their father though.

I am seeking citizenship for the reason you mentioned (a great feeling for Italy). That is also why I am studying the language too. But also, legal rights in the EU could be helpful someday.


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