Italian Passport?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Maestranzi
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Italian Passport?

Postby Maestranzi » 19 Apr 2006, 11:23

I am trying to get an Italian Passport, and I am wondering if anyone can help tell me if i will be able to get one or not. My Great Grandfather was born in Italy. He cane to the u.s. in 1922 but was not naturalized b/c his father already had dual citizenship (u.s and italy). So my great grandfather now had automatic dual citizenship (u.s. and italy), never renouncing his italian citizenship. My grandfather was then born in the u.s. in 1932, and my father in 1960, and me in 1984. So would I be able to get an Italian Passport with all the documents needed or does that fact that my great grandfather had dual citizenship become a problem?

also my great grandmother was naturalized in 1944 (after my grandfather was born) but I dont think that matters because i heard a rule that women couldn't pass down their citizenship back then.

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby wldspirit » 19 Apr 2006, 13:30

" Remember that prior to January 1, 1948, women could not pass Italian citizenship jure sanguinis on to their children. So unless your grandparent was born after January 1, 1948, the answer is no. "

Great Faq at this link......

http://www.italiamerica.org/id71.htm#64

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby mler » 19 Apr 2006, 15:40

Maestranzi, you're right about women not being able to pass on citizenship before 1948, but you're wrong about the dual citizenship thing. Before 1992, you could only hold one citizenship. If any of your ancestors naturalized, he gave up his Italian citizenship; and if he did so before his children were born, he passed on only U.S. citizenship.

You need to go back now and check to see when the naturalizations took place and who was affected by it. If your great-great grandfather naturalized when your great grandfather was still a minor, your great grandfather was automatically naturalized and lost his Italian citizenship.

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby Maestranzi » 20 Apr 2006, 05:56

here is the information. my great great grandfather was naturalized in 1904, but that was after my great grandfather was born (1901). So my great grandfather was born in Italy as an italian citizen. then he came to the U.s. in 1922, and did not have to be naturalized since his father had already been naturalized. but what i've been told was that he held dual citizenship (never renouncing his italian citizenship). then he had my grandfather in 1932 in the us and so on to me. am i eligible for an italian passport?

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby mler » 20 Apr 2006, 07:31

Here's the problem. When your great great grandfather naturalized, your great grandfather also naturalized because minors were naturalized with their parents.

The information you received is not correct, because prior to 1992, dual citizenship was not permitted either by Italy or the U.S. Until 1992, Italy considered naturalization to be a renunciation of Italian citizenship. So in reality, from the time of your great great grandfather's naturalization, everyone down the line was American--not Italian.

The only thing that may help is that your great grandfather was in Italy at the time of your great great grandfather's naturalization. Perhaps he was not considered naturalized because of this. Or, at the very least, the U.S. may not have any naturalization records for him. This would be a good thing, because without naturalization records, Italy would consider that he was still Italian.

Of course, you know there is a complicated process for getting an Italian passport. First you need to demonstrate that you are eligible for citizenship jure sanguinis.

Your would need at minimum:

your great grandfather's birth certificate from Italy
your great grandfather's marriage certificate with apostille
your great grandfather's death certificate with apostille if applicable
your grandfather's birth certificate with apostille
your grandfather's marriage certificate with apostille
your grandfather's death certificate with apostille (if applicable)
your father's birth certificate with apostille
your father's marriage certificate with apostille
your birth certificate with apostille
your marriage certificate with apostille if applicable
your children's birth certificates with apostille if applicable

And MOST IMPORTANT, your great grandfather's naturalization certificate proving he was naturalized afther the birth of your grandfather OR a certified statement that there is no record of his naturalization. You can get this information from NARA or the National Archives through the Freedom of Information Act.

This you need to get first, because without proof that there was indeed an Italian citizenship to pass on, all the rest means nothing. You have to document a direct link from you to the relative who was able to pass on Italian citizenship.

BTW, some consulates also require the birth certificates from the female part of the family. New York does not, but you will need to check with yours.

I hope this helps. If there is any other information I can help you with, just write.

Good luck.

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby mler » 20 Apr 2006, 07:34

Oops, I just noticed that you are from Illinois. From what I've read, the Chicago consulate requires documentation from BOTH sides of the family so you will also need:

your great grandmother's birth certificate
your grandmother's birth certificate with apostille
your mother's birth certificate with apostille

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby mler » 20 Apr 2006, 07:46

I just reread my posting, and I hope it makes sense to you. They sure don't make it easy, do they. :lol:

However, if this is something you really want, you should pursue it. Keep in mind that this is a lengthy process. And once you finally get all the documents, if there are any name or date discrepancies, the documents may need to be amended. After this is done, you can submit your request to the Italian consulate, and depending on where you apply, it can take from several months to more than a year for final approval. Hope you're in no rush.

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby Maestranzi » 20 Apr 2006, 08:50

thanks for all your help mler. acutally i am in kind of a hurry b/c i have a chance to play professional basketball in italy and that would start in september. my agent told me that i should go out to italy to apply for the passport, b/c that would be a faster process. Is this true? also, my grandfather owns a place in italy that he keeps for when he visits and rents out otherwise so i would be able to stay there when i went to italy to apply for the passport.

also, i do believe that there are no records of my great grandfather ever being naturalized. so i would need some sort of documentation saying that they have no records of him ever being naturalized correct? therefore showing that he is italian (being born there and living there for several years) and be able to pass down to me? i hope this is correct. but how would i go about getting a documentation saying he wasn't naturalized. do you know anyone i could try to call/contact that could help me. i have called so many different places involved w/ INS but no one can help me yet.
thanks
Antonio Maestranzi

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby elba » 20 Apr 2006, 14:04

Unless you are a 'bona fide' Italian Citizen (and I am in NO WAY suggesting that you aren't), and registered as such, you will need all the documentation listed here by 'mler'. I personally think that she/he is being very optimistic on the time scales suggested..... I know of people who - once they've submitted all documentation and it has been accepted - then they have waited far more than one year....In some cases 3 or four years....

Try: http://expattalk.com/eve

There are a lot of good helpful experts on that forum and they will give you advice and may even be able to suggest alternative 'temporary measures' to help you.

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby wldspirit » 20 Apr 2006, 14:24

Elba is right, another poster had posted this within the last month........


I started my quest for Italian citizenship in September 2003, by first doing research. Then, as of February 2004, I started gathering the necesary documents.

I asked the Consulate (Chicago), at the end of 2003, if there were many more applicants ahead of me, or if I would be processed right away, once I submitted my documents. He told me that there were at least 80,000 applicants for dual citizenship since 2002, just in his Consulate alone. I then asked him how many applied in 2001, and was told, maybe 30,000. This sounded like a sudden increase to the official, because he said usually, he may have between 20-25,000 applicants, and so he informed me that there could be a delay.

Anyway, i started to wonder if there was also an increase in applicants in the other Consulates and called New York and Miami consulates. They also told me there was a significant increase in applicants.

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby mler » 20 Apr 2006, 15:58

Unless the basketball team that is interested in you is willing to help you expedite the process, going to Italy will only make it more difficult to get your records and apostilles in order. You do know, of course, that in Italy, as in every other country, there are rules and there are rules. I read that Mike Piazza got his Italian citizenship in only a few months so he could play in the world games on the Italian team.

Without this help, you will indeed have to go through the interminable process of documenting everything you know to be true. You need to start with two things--the Italian birth certificate (because that may take some time to get) and the naturalizations papers (because without proof of Italian ancestry, your application goes nowhere).

Start with NARA. I believe this stands for National Archives Records Administration, and ask them to try to find forms for your great grandfather. If there is an office nearby, go in personally. That's what I did and in a few hours, I found my grandfather, and NARA made me a certified copy of the Naturalization Petition, Oath of Allegiance, and application. New York is willing to accept this in lieu of an Actual Naturalization Certificate, but if NARA says there are no naturalization records, you need to apply for a statement of non existence of records through the Office of Homeland Security, Freedom of Information Act. The form you need is G-639.

I wish I could offer you better news, but as the others have pointed out, this is an exceptionally long process. Have your agent contact the basketball team, and perhaps they can help you with this. Otherwise, September is definitely out of the question.

Good luck, and let us know how this all works out for you.

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby mler » 20 Apr 2006, 16:04

BTW, your agent may know a lot about basketball, but he know absolutely nothing about Italian passports. You cannot just apply for an Italian passport in Italy or at an Italian consulate; you have to first prove you are a citizen.

If you want a U.S. passport, you need to provide all sorts of proof that you are a U.S. citizen and entitled to one. Italy is no different. You can't just go there and ask for one on the basis of an ancestor's being born in Italy. Don't waste your time and money on a trip unless the basketball team has a way to expedite the process.

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby mler » 20 Apr 2006, 16:08

Oops, I keep forgetting things. Of course, you can stay at the family home when you are in Italy, but remember that if you intend to be in Italy for longer than three months, you will need to get a VISA. Check with your consulate to determine the type of VISA that fits your situation.

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby TrentinoJim » 13 Dec 2006, 19:23

Ciao Maestranzi... listen, I've just been reading your posts about your effort to obtain Italian Citizenship... a lot of interesting info in the response, some correct, some not... However, none of it applies to you.

First, your immigrant ancestor, Giustino Maestranzi, was naturalized as a US citizen before the birth of his children -- at least according to a ship manifest that shows him re-entering the US as an American citizen in July 1900.

However, it is irrelevant, because he was NEVER an Italian citizen. When he emigrated, he was a citizen of the Austo-Hungarian Empire. When he was naturalized, he renounced AUSTRIAN citizenship. Trentino was not part of the Italian Republic until 1920.

In the United States, it was impossible to have dual citizenship until a Supreme Court decision in the 1970's made it legal.

Unlike the United States, birth IN Italy is not sufficient to claim Italian citizenship. Italian citizenship is only by blood, or naturalization by extended residence.

However, you are not out of luck. Under Italian Law #379_2000, which expired in December 2005 but was extended for another five years in February of 2006, you are eligible to claim Italian citizenship if the following requirements are met:1) your ancestor was born in parts of Italy under Austro-Hungarian rule; 2) your emigrant ancestor emigrated between 1868 and 1920; 3) none of your ancestors renounced ITALIAN citizenship.

Neither the sex of the ancestor, nor naturalization as a U.S. citizen are disqualifying under this law... in other words you can use a maternal line.

There are a number of specific additional requirements. I suggest that you go to www.trentininelmondo.it and find the link on Cittadinanza (citizenship) if you can read Italian... for complete details.... Also you can contact me for additional information...

I just completed my own request for acknowledgment of my Italian Citizenship under this law and I am waiting to hear the results... It is my understanding that it could take up to 2 years, as requests under this law are not being processed very quickly....

Regards...

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Re: Italian Passport?

Postby KammPacher » 25 Apr 2007, 12:31

[quote="TrentinoJim"]

Neither the sex of the ancestor, nor naturalization as a U.S. citizen are disqualifying under this law... in other words you can use a maternal line.

quote]

Hi TrentinoJim

Do you have any news about people that adquired the italian cittizenship under the law 379/2000, using maternal line?

Best Regards


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