Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, etc..

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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annasacchetti
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Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, etc..

Postby annasacchetti » 27 May 2006, 10:23

Hello everyone,

I came across this forum via google and you seem to have a lot of resources regarding Italian lineage.

I have a few questions that someone can hopefully help me answer.

1. I'm in the process of getting together my great-grandparents birth and marriage certificates in Italy for my Italian citizenship. My great-grandmother was born in Sant'Elia Fiumerapido, Italy. What is the best possible way to get her birth certificate? Also, my grandparents were married in Italy and i'm wondering how I can locate their marriage certificate?

2. I have spoken with the Boston consulate and they have my great-grandfathers naturalization paperwork which makes me an Italian citizen. Now they say they need a "letter" from U.S. immigration just stating the date my great-grandfather became a U.S. citizen. How can I get this "letter" in a timely fashion?

3. Once I get these last documents, how long does the process take to get recognized officially as an Italian citizen and get an Italian passport?

Sorry for the long post, but i'm hoping to find some direction.

I appreciate any info you can give me.

Thanks,

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby wishyou » 27 May 2006, 21:24

I can answer a part of question 1)

This is the page to contact the comune of Sant'Elia
http://www.comune.santeliafiumerapido.fr.it/scrivi.php

You have to give them Name, Surname and born date.
If she has born before 1871, probably they don't have register, so ask them to tell you to which parish to refer to have the birth o baptesim certificate.
Ask them also about the marriage certificate (you have to give them names and marriage date).
By law, in the birth register, in frame by side of every birth act must be reported marriage and death day.
This law, anyway, is not always been respected.

If you have problem to contact them or they do not speak english, I can give you a little (but little...) help.

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby annasacchetti » 27 May 2006, 22:22

Thanks for the help. She was born in 1884, so they should have her record. Should I use the online form on the site you referred me to? Or should I call them to order her birth certificate?

Also, I don't have their marriage date and I don't know where they got married. I'm sure it was either the town my great-grandfather was born in, or the town my great-grandmother was born in.

Thanks again for your help.

Matthew

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby mler » 28 May 2006, 00:14

Matthew,

I'm a little confused. I thought you had written on another thread that you had obtained information regarding "no naturalization" of your g-grandfather from Massachusetts. Was this from your mom's family?

In any case, getting naturalization records is not too difficult, but check with the consulate again to be sure you know exactly what they require. Every consulate is different, but I've not heard of any that will accept a letter stating the date of naturalization. Nor can I think of a way to obtain one. Some consulates require the actual Certificate of Naturalization. Others will accept the certified Petition and the Oath of Allegience.

If the Boston consulate does not require the actual certificate, you're in good shape. Certified copies of the Petition and the Oath can be obtained from the NARA office, and if you go to the office in person, they will get it for you within a half hour. There is a NARA office in Boston. Check this website http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/ for the exact address and other information.

If Boston requires the actual certificate, the process, while not more difficult, is considerably more lengthy. You can obtain the Certificate from the National Archives and the Freedom of Information Act. The form you will need, G-639, can be downloaded from this site: http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/g-639.htm

Obtaining the Certificate is easy, but they are overwhelmed with requests, and you probably will wait at least a year to receive it. It seems, though, that the NARA information will be acceptable.

Once all the paperwork is in (and don't forget to get apostilles for the U.S. documents), you submit them to the consulate. The time varies depending on the consulate through which you apply, but it seems that at least one year is the norm.

BTW, if getting documents from Italy is difficult for you, you may want to visit myitaliancitizenship.com They charge $42 for the first certificate and $32 for the second. I just received my grandfather's birth certificate through them.

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby annasacchetti » 28 May 2006, 01:07

Hi,

I posted in the "no naturalization" because someone was having trouble getting a statement from the federal archives. I explained to check with the state as well cause that is where I was very successful in getting my great-grandfathers info.

I have received my great-grandfathers naturalization paperwork from the state archives (my moms side) and it has been submitted to the consulate. They do not need the original copy. a photocopy is fine (they say). The way they stated it to me was to try and get a "letter" from immigration stating the day he became naturalized. I don't know what to do about that. It makes no sense if I already have his naturalization paperwork and it has everything in detail.

For now I will wait the few weeks to get the birth certificates and marriage certificate from Italy and then submit everything to the consulate. I will still fill out the G 639 form and see what happens. maybe I won't need it after all. After speaking with the Boston consulate, they are very helpful and always return emails and pick up the phone. Hopefully they are not as backed up as other consulates sound and hopefully it will not take a year.

Just a question. While I am waiting for all of this paperwork to come in, if I wanted to move to Europe and start a job would it be easy to get a Visa and become a resident while I wait to become an official citizen?

Mler, thanks for your help thus far..

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby mler » 28 May 2006, 01:28

Matthew,

Did the naturalization papers you received state the date of naturalization or only that he petitioned for naturalization and eventually naturalized? The date is important because the consulate wants to be sure the naturalization did not take place before your grandfather's birth. I'm not sure exactly what paperwork you received.

When I went to NARA, they gave me the Petition of Naturalization as well as the Oath of Allegience. These are copies, of course, but they were certified and stamped. The Petition does not have the date of naturalization, but the Oath does. It states the date he took the oath and the date that he was admitted as a citizen. I think this is what you need, so before you go crazy with FOIA, you may want to get this from NARA. Remember, too, that although copies are accepted--they do not expect original naturalization papers--the copies should be certified. Again NARA can help here.

Unfortunately, until you are recognized as a citizen, you are not considered one, and although you can, of course live and work in Italy, you have to go through the considerably difficult process of obtaining the necessary visas and work permits. From what I can see, it's difficult for even Italians and EU citizens to find work in Italy today because of the high rate of unemployment. U.S. citizens are at a considerable disadvantage. I don't think the visa will be a problem; but the job probably will be unless you have one lined up already and the company is willing to sponsor you. Good luck.

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby annasacchetti » 28 May 2006, 01:49

I have the official naturalization paperwork. It includes the oath of allegiance. He was naturalized on June 29, 1925 and my grandmother was born January 10, 1922. The consulate already determined that I was born an Italian citizen. They asked me to get a "letter" from immigration showing the date. Not sure why, but I will figure out something.

As for working in Italy, I have heard about the unemployment problems. I guess I will wait until everything is official. I'm graduating college in a couple weeks so hopefully I will have plenty of time.

Matthew

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby wishyou » 28 May 2006, 03:47

Try before with the form.
If, in a couple of day, they don't answer, call them (remember, is very easy that nobody speak english in thet office...)

If you don't have marriage date and place it's very hard. Ask them if on the frame of the act is signed (it has to be, but, as I said, could be not too).
Another way just make a bluff: tell them that you know that she married there but you don't have the date. They have registers called "decennali" in which is signed reference to marriage acts registred in ten years. If it's true that she married there for them will be easy to find

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby mler » 28 May 2006, 05:29

Seems like they're just giving you a hard time. If they are sure of the date, they should not need confirmation from another source. Just a few thoughts. . .

Is the paperwork certified? If not, that may do it for you?

Have you spoken to an official personally? If not, perhaps a trip to the consulate may be worth your time.

Quite frankly, I doubt you will get a letter from INS, and it seems a ridiculous request. After all what can a letter say: "According to the Oath of Allegience, --------- was naturalized on -----------."? They can see that for themselves.

It may be possible--I hope not--that the Boston Consulate wants a copy of the actual certificate because that's what INS provides. Unfortunately, the immigration department is pretty slow.

Try speaking to someone else at the consulate. Sometimes that will do it.

And remember, too, that consulates seem to create their own rules, and sometimes I think they make them up as they go along. I've dealt with both the Newark and the New York consulate. One says my father's birth certificate is ok; the other insists it be amended. Some consulates require birth certificates even from those not in the direct line; others do not.

So, check again for further clarification. Maybe someone just made a mistake.

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby annasacchetti » 28 May 2006, 13:08

Wishyou and Mler,

Thanks for your advice. This forum is great!! So much information to learn from others!!

With respect to the marriage certificate, I will take heed to your advice. I have an Italian friend from Sicily and she is going to mail them on the online form for her birth certificate. I will also press them for the marriage certificate, although I do not quite understand what how to ask them for it. If you can explain again it would be good.

As for my great-grandfathers "letter", I have a friend who works for the Federal archives and I am waiting for his reponse (I built up quite a rapport with different folks through this wild goos chase for documents) and I will see what he says. The consulate knows for sure when he was naturalized cause he said it, but I will get as much together as possible and see what happens.

I'll keep everyone informed.

Matthew

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby wishyou » 28 May 2006, 17:53

Just say them:
"I know that she married in your town, but I'don't Know when."
They have easy way to look marriage acts between 1900-1920.

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby annasacchetti » 28 May 2006, 21:23

Ok. I will give them all of my great-grandparents info. The dates you gave were the dates when they were married. People got married young back in the day!!

I'll keep you up to date. I will have my friend from Sicily do it online, or possibly call.

Thanks

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby Emmy » 04 Jun 2006, 13:04

Hi Matthew
I have posted you a private message but just in case like me you forget to look there I have explained that you posted a message on 'Defilippis/Bastianelli post in the genealogy forum. I have ordered micro films from Sant'Elia if there is anything you would like me to check just post me a message on my post in the genealogy forum.
The films I have ordered are
Births: 1850-1857
Births : 1857-1865
Marriages:1860-1879
Emmy

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Re: Great-grandparents marriage certificate, birth certif, e

Postby suanj » 04 Jun 2006, 15:35

Matthew: what you need again? I making for you all right certificates as your request me....regards, suanj
Visit my website:
ITALIAN ORIGIN SEARCH


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