My great grandfather traveled from Avigliano, through Ellis Island, to Port Chester, NY, with an Angelo Mecca. His name was Vito Genovese, and they listed their destination as 16 Beech. Both were 18, and Vito listed a cousin, Vito Pace, as his contact, while it looks like Angelo listed a cousin Nicola Pace as his. If you can tell me anymore about this relationship, I would appreciate it.
There are 19 persons surnamed Pace currently residing in Portchester NY. Why don't you gothru the listings and see if anyone meets your fancy by first name or chance and since many of them are related to others in Portchester you should be able to discover the relationship. Go to www. switchboard.com. =Peter=
Pete, I have to say that the success I have achieved since joining this board back in August has been so great, that I can't even think of adding any more to my plate at the moment. I have been finding people all over the place, from Italy to the US. Right now, I am writing letters to my newly found relatives in Avigliano and a person I think might by my cousin John in CA.
What I will do though it to check the census records from the 20s and 30s, to see what they yield. The relationship I am trying to nail down is one that started in Italy, so it may prove to be a little more troublesome, but I still think it will be fruitful wth some good old fashioned research.
Another twist with this one is that I am related to the Pace's on two accounts; both my great, great grandmother on my grandfather's side, and my great grandmother on my grandmother's side, were Paces, Vita Crescenzia and Vita Grace. I have yet to determine their relationship to each other, if there is one, which would not surprising in a very small community such as Avigliano.
Dear Montclaire I have often wondered why people researched their family genealogy going back name by name beyond GGrandparents into the remotest of times before the 1800"s since Family lore would not include anything earlier, save for perhaps a continuous use of family first names or perhaps the introduction of an entirely new name never before used inthe family.
It made no sense to me since the Surname is what counted and the first names of persons without historical content are usually missing or not further identified and if they are identified by some quirk are just fill.
I researched my family and only concentrated on seeeking out the surname changes that have taken place over the past millennia to 1100 and the historical features that cropped up as a result of name changes, events etc.
I admire your tenacity but what does it matter what the relationships are between same surnamed persons from the same town ? Its superfluous since the realtionships are there by degrees. Just wanted to discuss this with someone who knows what I am taklking about. =Peter=
Pete, I am trying to trace things back to my great, great, great grandfather, just due to the circumstances that I find myself in. My great grandfather, Vito, was the only one of the family to come to the US, all the rest stayed in Italy. That was 1907.
So, now I have several needs to satisfy; one, to find all decendants of Vito's children, which are now scattered all over the country. This is valuable in the fact that these are living relatives, and my current extended family. This aids in collecting information and renewing ties.
Second would be finding modern-day relatives in Italy, which I have done; this keeps the line to our history strong and reminds us of who we are.
Third would be the further research of deceased relatives in Italy, and I think this is specifically what you are addressing. Admittedly, I am going quite deep here, back to the early 1800s. The reason is this: if I can trace things back that far, it expands my scope quite considerably. Realistically I can not go back further than this and expect success, so the availablilty or records plays a part in my decision. But to expand these relationships, what some would call a collateral search, does indeed have value for me.
My father's mother's side came over lock, stock, and barrel, so to research their history in a similar way is pointless. But, with my great grandfather, his history is not here, but in Italy. Over the years, and still now after much research, I am plagued by hazy relationships, 'cousins' from relatives now long lost. Granted, not all of these mysteries will be solved, but I hope to clear up many of them. One of the benefits is that through sites such as Ancestry.com, to establish these ties in a concrete fashion might allow me to gain even greater information. Most family trees fade out by the mid 1800s at best, so this may also help others to tie together their past. I have been in contact with a woman who has traced her lineage back to Avigliano, and I am highly confident that with one more collateral search, I will find we are related. That's pretty cool if you ask me.
I suppose another way to look at it is that I am relating my great grandfather to myself, in that I am finding my ties in the same fashion as I am finding his, all at the same time. My scope in the US is to trace back collaterally to my grandfather, and then using Vito, to do the same in Italy. I think this gives a pretty complete picture of the flow and evolution of a family, and I suppose the next decendant to do a similar search will find themselves in the same position.
Another reason to research so completely is that with every passing generation, more and more information is lost. My children could never accomplish what I am doing right now, as there would be very little to go on without the living memory of my surviving family. Whatever I find will most likely be all they will have.
I concur with what your saying since the early 1800's would bring you (andf I ) back to the level of our GGrandparents and perhaps one generation earlier since you could seek out who died in early 1800's which would bring you back to the late 1700's and that would be an open door to the Council of Trent's administrative reforms for parish record in the early 1700's and the Libro d'anime(parish census Book of Souls) but thats about it. Anything prior is historical records. Good to chat with you about this. =Peter=
The only thing I can hope to find going back farther than the early 1800s would be an idea of when the family left Genoa for points South, and before that, if there was any surname pre-dating the use of Genovese, or Genoa-ese. But, these facts are only that, facts, and could possibly take decades to determine.
For now, I'm happy to keep my search confined to only those necessary to string all the braches of the tree together. I don't know if I expressed this adequately in my other post, but with so many decendants of Avigliano ancestors still loosely connected to the family, it does indeed become relevant to find how it all ties in together.
Hello, My great grandmother was Margherita Mecca from Avigliano and came over via Ellis Island on June 1911 or 1912. I am in receipt of her naturalization papers but not sure who she came over with. I researched Ellis Island but couldn't tell who she came with. I know there are other Meccas in PortChester NY who came over prior to her. She was born on April 11, 1894. Trying to find relatives in Avigliano on the Mecca side.
I'm an Avigliano descendant, too. My family names are Nole, Gerardi, and Santarsiero. My 3x-great-grandparents immigrated in 1887 to Manhattan with my 2x-great-grandfather and his siblings. Through Ancestry.com's digital records, I found his birth certificate and his parents' marriage records, which revealed their parents' names, my 4x-great-grandparents. I also found some of their siblings. I'd love to go back even further, but that would require writing to Avigliano or Potenza, right? My Italian is not so good.
Miss Blue wrote:I'm an Avigliano descendant, too. My family names are Nole, Gerardi, and Santarsiero. My 3x-great-grandparents immigrated in 1887 to Manhattan with my 2x-great-grandfather and his siblings. Through Ancestry.com's digital records, I found his birth certificate and his parents' marriage records, which revealed their parents' names, my 4x-great-grandparents. I also found some of their siblings. I'd love to go back even further, but that would require writing to Avigliano or Potenza, right? My Italian is not so good.
If you live near a family history center run by the Church of the Latter Day Saints, you can rent microfilms which will have the earlier records. There are state civil records for the town starting in 1809 and earlier church records as well.
i've been helping my husband's family with this process - they are Clapps and were in Waterbury, CT. His aunt says they knew Mecca in Waterbury, but aren't in touch with them now, but they are most likely Aviglenese. Hope that helps a bit.