Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby jcallori » 04 Dec 2006, 13:48

Dear all,

In searching the ship manifests on ellisisland.org recently, I think I came to a rather startling discovery and was hoping someone could provide further insight.

My great-grandfather, Alfonso Callari, came through New York from Italy on August 28, 1920. This is the date also indicated on his First Arrival certificate included with his naturalization papers. According to ellisisland.org another Alfonso Callari arrived in New York the previous year on December 23, 1919. Alfonso was from a village in Sicily called Casteltermini. On the passenger record for this Alfonso arriving in 1919, his town of origin is listed as Castelteruani. This is a typo (I believe) as I've not been able to find any record of a place called Castelteruani anywhere in Italy. Can someone confirm this suspicion? It also states on the 1919 manifest that Alfonso was going to be staying with an uncle called Gaetano Ricotta. Now I don't know anything about this Gaetano, I only know from my great-grandfather's Italian birth record that his mother's maiden name was Ricotta.

This must be the same person, right? Was it typical for immigrants to arrive in the U.S., return to Italy, and then go back to the U.S. in such a short period? Any ideas?

Many thanks,


Jordan

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Re: Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby mler » 04 Dec 2006, 14:31

There seem to be too many similarities for it not to be the same person, unless it was a cousin or other close relative. Any information regarding age? Often that's listed on the manifests.

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Re: Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby jcallori » 05 Dec 2006, 14:02

Okay, I'm no longer convinced they're the same person. My great-grandfather was born 13 March 1900. This means that the first Alfonso Callari to arrive in 1919 would have been 19 years old instead of 20 as listed on the manifest.

There is also a discrepancy in height between the two Alfonso's: 5'3" and 5'6", respectively.

What I don't understand is how the second Alfonso (my great-grandfather) was going to stay with an uncle called Antonino Mingoia when his mother's maiden name was Ricotta. Meanwhile the first Alfonso was staying with an uncle whose surname was in fact Ricotta (my great-grandfather's mother's maiden name). Confused yet?

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Re: Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby nuccia » 05 Dec 2006, 19:06

Ok, lets link the manifest and look them over...

First Name: Alfonso
Last Name: Callari
Ethnicity: Italy, Ital. South
Last Place of Residence: Castelteruani, Sicily
Date of Arrival: Dec 23, 1919
Age at Arrival: 20y Gender: M Marital Status: S
Ship of Travel: Patria
Port of Departure: Palermo
Manifest Line Number: 0029

Alfonso Manifest 1919 Page 1

Page 2

Name is crossed off so he may not have actually sailed or was detained for some reason. Leaving his father, Salvatore behind.
Going to NY to stay with his uncle Gaetano Ricotta.


First Name: Alfonso
Last Name: Callari
Ethnicity: Italy Ital. South
Last Place of Residence: Casteltmini
Date of Arrival: Aug 28, 1920
Age at Arrival: 20y Gender: M Marital Status: S
Ship of Travel: Ferdinando Palasciano
Port of Departure: Napoli
Manifest Line Number: 0019

Second Manifest Page 1

Page 2

Leaving his father Alfonso Callari behind and going to New Jersey to see his uncle Antonio. No, I don't think they are the same person...
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Re: Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby jcallori » 07 Dec 2006, 16:30

Thanks ever so much for your help! I have to admit to being more confused than ever.

I'm certain that my great-grandfather, Alfonso Callari, came to the U.S. on August 28, 1920 from Casteltermini, Sicily. How do I know for sure? I have in my possession two documents both pointing to the same person: (1) an Italian birth record for an Alfonso Callari born to a Salvatore Callari and a Rosalia Ricotta on March 13, 1900; and (2) naturalization papers for an Alfonso Callari also born on March 13, 1900 in Casteltermini and whose first-born son is called Salvatore (my grandfather), born May 11, 1927 in Trenton, N.J.

However, it seems the Alfonso who arrived December 23, 1919 has much in common with my great-grandfather. His father is called Salvatore for one. His uncle's surname is Ricotta. Meanwhile, I don't know why my great-grandfather's father's name is listed as Alfonso on the manifest. That must be a mistake.

Confused even more? I know I am.


Jordan

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Re: Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby jcsm400 » 07 Dec 2006, 18:20

What information did you start with on your grandfather, Salvatore? What US documentation have you obtained?

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Re: Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby nuccia » 07 Dec 2006, 18:44

Jordan,

Who did Alfonso marry? Did he marry in the US? Where in the US? Was he known by any other name? I wouldn't get frustrated just yet..we can probably piece this together...it just may take a little time....and a lot of patience!

Now smile and we'll see what we can find for you.
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Re: Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby jcallori » 08 Dec 2006, 10:06

Thank you both!

I know a great deal about Salvatore as he's my grandfather. There's no doubt surrounding his date of birth, his birth place, or his parents' names. His father, Alfonso Callari, married an Eloisa (or Eloise or Luisa) Giambrone in Brooklyn, N.Y. in 1926.

As I've already submitted a completed citizenship jure sanguinis application to the Italian consulate here in London, I have copies of all the relevant vital records from my great-grandfather down to me.

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Re: Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby jcsm400 » 08 Dec 2006, 14:50

Hi Jordan,

If you want to trace the family back further, there are films of the civil registries (1821-1911) of Casteltermini. These would be films of the original birht, marriage & death acts. We can supply the information if you are interested.

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Re: Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby nuccia » 08 Dec 2006, 18:34

Was going to post this earlier but I was in doubt...is this your grandfather Salvatore by any chance?

U.S. Veterans Cemeteries, ca.1800-2006
about Salvatore Callari
Name: Salvatore Callari
Service Info.: PFC US ARMY KOREA
Birth Date: 8 Dec 1933
Death Date: 6 Aug 1989
Service Start Date: 17 May 1954
Service End Date: 2 May 1956
Interment Date: 10 Aug 1989
Cemetery: Calverton National Cemetery
Cemetery Address: 210 Princeton Boulevard Rt 25 Calverton, NY 11933
Buried At: Section 8 Site 937
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Re: Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby jcallori » 12 Dec 2006, 15:11

No, that's not him. He's still alive.


Thanks anyway!

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Re: Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby corrado » 13 Dec 2006, 04:27

Yes that happend all the time, the man would come over find a job and get settled then go back and cring the family over. I saw this im my family.
There is a urban myth that people came and that was the end of it, but there was a lot of back and forth travel.

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Re: Did my great-grandfather come to New York twice?

Postby corrado » 13 Dec 2006, 04:28

Yes that happend all the time, the man would come over find a job and get settled then go back and cring the family over. I saw this im my family.
There is a urban myth that people came and that was the end of it, but there was a lot of back and forth travel.


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