dual citizenship

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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johnmilano
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dual citizenship

Postby johnmilano » 01 Mar 2007, 19:03

Hi All,

My story is this:
My great grandfather was an italian citizenship, he came to the
US, and he got naturalized 13 years AFTER he had my grandmother.
As far as I know, my great grandfather, my grandmother, my father,
and myself never renounced our italian citizenship.

So I believe I am elligable for italian citizenship (dual citizenship).

I am curious, does anyone have any success stories on
actually obtaining their dual citizenship?
I hear stories of how difficult and hard it is, and people taking
all the time to get the neccessary documents and then
filing the work with the consulate and then never hearing anything.

So I'm wondering if anyone has any success stories,
so that i may have some hope.

JOHN

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Gildone
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby Gildone » 18 Mar 2007, 14:42

Since you are claiming through your grandmother, the 1948 rule will come into play here. Your grandmother obtained Italian citizenship from your great grandfather, but she can only pass citizenship on to children of hers born after January 1, 1948. So the key here is when was your father born?

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patg
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby patg » 02 Apr 2007, 02:13

John,

Gildone mentioned you were applying through your mother's side but I didn't see where you mentioned what side you were applying through. Maybe I missed something.

Anyway I got my Italian citizenship! So, YES it can be done! I believe I had a very easy time getting it compared to other horrible stories I've heard.

I applied through the Philadelphia consulate about 3 years ago and it only took them about a week to send my docs to the Naples commune where everything was going to be registered. I hear now it takes much longer at that consulate. I think just about every consulate is inundated with paperwork from LOTS of people applying for dual citizenship.

The only miscommunication was between the consulate and the commune whereby the commune registered all my docs in record time (about 2 wks) but somehow the consulate didn't 'remember' getting notified of such and I waited and waited to hear back so I could then apply for my passport.

It was only after I inquired about the status of everything (after waiting about 8 months) that yes indeed everything was registered and I could then apply for my passport.

I did have some trouble getting some of my docs but all in all it worked out and was well worth the work and wait.

Keep at it...it is well worth it! Please let us know how you make out.

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docajv
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby docajv » 02 Apr 2007, 03:52

i received dual citizenship via my greatgrandfather..he was naturalized when my granfather was 20....since i live in chicago, and my father is still alive, i had to file all the papers to have my father become a citizen first in philadelphia...(he lives in new jersey)..they were great there and he got his recognition in no time...chicago was a different story....but it's done...the process itself was quite easy..one just needs to be very meticulous and make sure that everything is in order...so dot your i's and cross your t's...

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Gregorio
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby Gregorio » 02 Apr 2007, 06:19

they were great there and he got his recognition in no time...chicago was a different story....but it's done...the process itself was quite easy..one just needs to be very meticulous and make sure that everything is in order...so dot your i's and cross your t's...


Hey Docajv,

Just curious, when did you apply through Chicago and how long did it take? I applied in May of 2005, and no word yet. I called in December of 2006 and Oddo said "about a year".

Thanks,

Greg

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mler
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby mler » 02 Apr 2007, 17:03

Someone posted this on another forum this morning:
_______________

Lucianno Oddo is no longer working in the office of cittadinanza. He is still working in the consulate, however.

The woman who has replaced him (Anna Vingelli) said that no processing whatsoever occurred over the last two years. She is reorganizing the files and will begin processing them once she has completed that process.

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Gregorio
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby Gregorio » 02 Apr 2007, 22:37

Lucianno Oddo is no longer working in the office of cittadinanza. He is still working in the consulate, however.

The woman who has replaced him (Anna Vingelli) said that no processing whatsoever occurred over the last two years. She is reorganizing the files and will begin processing them once she has completed that process.


I am sick to my stomach to hear that, even though I knew it was the case before getting the actual confirmation because there hasn't been one person on any forum claiming to have recieved citizenship through Chicago since Luciano Oddo took the post. At least it is good to hear that something is being done instead of just being in the dark with the other fellow.

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Gildone
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby Gildone » 03 Apr 2007, 00:37

patg wrote:John,

Gildone mentioned you were applying through your mother's side but I didn't see where you mentioned what side you were applying through. Maybe I missed something.



I said he was applying through his grandmother, not his mother's side. In his message he says: great grandfather naturalized 13 years after his grandmother was born. So, this is his line:

great-grandfather---->grandmother--->father--->johnmilano

This means his father had to be born after January 1, 1948.

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rdeprospo
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby rdeprospo » 08 Apr 2007, 13:19

I am an American living in the UK and have been for the past 6 years. It's been a constant battle to stay and I've only recently realised that I could be eligible for Italian Citizenship which would end this battle forever and enable me to live in the EU indefinitely.

What I don't know is whether or not my great-grandfather, who was born in Italy and emmigrated to the U.S., ever renounced citizenship (or if my Grandfather did after him). No one in my family seems to have this information. Does anyone know how I would get it? Presumably it must be on public record somewhere...

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to go through all the trouble of finding obscure (and presumably expensive) documents only to find out that I'm ineligible!

Also, if anyone has done this outwith the U.S. and has any advice on how the process might differ for me living in the UK, I'll take any advice I can get.

Thank you!

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AnotherCitizenToBe
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby AnotherCitizenToBe » 08 Apr 2007, 21:01

I am far from being an expert on this matter but my impression so far is that the easiest, fastest, and least expensive way to find out if your ancestor naturalized is to order "Naturalization Records" from the US National Archives (http://archives.gov/research/order/orderonline.html). The cost is only $10 (plus $6 for certification). Click "Proceed to order online" then "Made-To-Order Reproductions" then "Immigration and Naturalization Records". You should have an answer in "3 - 10 days processing time".

The more information you can provide, the faster and more accurate the search will be. If the Archives comes back to you with "No Records Found" and you have provided good background info, the odds are that your ancestor did not become a US citizen.

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Gildone
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby Gildone » 08 Apr 2007, 22:20

rdeprospo:

AnotherCitizenToBe made a good suggestion. If you need more of his personal information before you make a request through the US Archives, you may want to join ancestry. com for a month and look for census and other records to assist you in getting as much personal information as you can. I think a one-month membership there cost $30-some dollars.

Some census records may list whether or not the person has applied for US citizenship, you might also find draft registrations, etc. The 1920 census for my great grandfather, for example, noted that he had applied for US citizenship in 1917. Ancestry. com also makes many other documents available that may help like draft registrations, etc.

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pastasugo
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby pastasugo » 23 Apr 2007, 05:12

kj

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AnotherCitizenToBe
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby AnotherCitizenToBe » 23 Apr 2007, 09:22

pastasugo wrote:Unfortunately the consulate will not accept an NARA No Records Found as proof of no naturalization. The consulate requires the USCIS search, and their No Records Found must then by certified by USCIS headquarters in Washington.


True, but first things first.

With a little more experience under my belt, follows below my suggested course of action:

1) Try the National Archives OnLine ordering system. If your ancestor was naturalized in a Federal Court, they will produce copies of his docs, often within a week.

2) If no result, try the county archives for the county in which you believe it is most likely your ancestor would have naturalized - basically, tthe county he was living in during the time period. If your ancestor naturalized before a county or state court (as was common), the county archives should be able to provide docs quickly. When I contacted Westchester County, NY, archives, I had copies of the docs in hand in less than one week - after a manual search of the actual record books, no less!

3) If no result, try the state archives.

4) If no result, it is likely that your ancestor did *not* naturalize. Unfortunately, the only proof of this which the consulates are willing to accept is the infamous "NO RECORDS FOUND" letter from USCIS, certified by the good folks in Washington, DC. It has been widely reported that getting such a letter can take up to two years.

Note: If you are able to get docs from national or local archives, you will *not* receive the actual Certificate of Naturalization; that can only be had through a FOIA request filed with USCIS and, again, a long wait as has been reported. What you will get from the archives - assuming it exists - is the "Petition for Citizenship" and the "Oath of Allegiance" signed and dated and showing the certificate number. It has been reported by others that at least some consulates (including NYC) will accept the Petition/Oath in lieu of the actual certificate.

As a new researcher, the first goal is to learn whether or not the Italian ancestor naturalized before the birth of his/her US-born children. The archives route can provide a quick answer to this question, often less than a few weeks to a month total. If no records found at the national/county/state archives, it is extremely unlikely that the ancestor naturalized and the two year wait for a "NO RECORDS FOUND" letter can be put to use gathering up all other required documents. On the other hand, if records are found, the researcher will be able to quickly determine his/her status under jure sanguinis since the naturalization of the Italian ancestor is the single most important factor in determining eligibility.

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pastasugo
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby pastasugo » 23 Apr 2007, 20:30

mn

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mler
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Re: dual citizenship

Postby mler » 23 Apr 2007, 21:56

Better to say "Things are looking good." I have been hit with a number of surprises along the way, so a good rule of thumb is to "always be ready for the unexpected."

AnotherCitizenToBe, however, offers a logical and practical course of action. Good luck in your search.


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