A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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yasmin008
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A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby yasmin008 » 22 Jul 2007, 19:35

So, to clarify the 1948 piece of this puzzle, I would like to know if it sounds like I (and my sisters and parents) are eligible.

Great grandparents both born in Italy
Grandfather born in the U.S.
Mother born in U.S. in 1947
Me

Am I eligible for citizenship?

Does naturalization happen automatically when you are born here? My no one ever renounced citizenship (my great grandparents died in Italy), but if my grandfather was born here, does that mean he was naturalized?

Can my sisters, my parents and I use the same set of documents to ask for citizenship, or do we need translated and signed copies for each one of us?

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Re: A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby ricbru » 22 Jul 2007, 19:58

yasmin008 wrote:So, to clarify the 1948 piece of this puzzle, I would like to know if it sounds like I (and my sisters and parents) are eligible.

Great grandparents both born in Italy
Grandfather born in the U.S.
Mother born in U.S. in 1947
Me

Am I eligible for citizenship?

Does naturalization happen automatically when you are born here? My no one ever renounced citizenship (my great grandparents died in Italy), but if my grandfather was born here, does that mean he was naturalized?

Can my sisters, my parents and I use the same set of documents to ask for citizenship, or do we need translated and signed copies for each one of us?


Yes you are

Read this:

Mother - Grandfather - Great Grandfather: Your maternal grandfather was born in your native country, your maternal great grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of his birth, you were born after January 1st, 1948, and neither you nor your mother nor your grandfather ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship. If citizenship is acquired by birth in your country and you meet all these conditions, you qualify for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis.

If your great grandfather from Italy naturalized before your grandfather was born then it means that you are not qualified. You need to proof the naturalization of your great by a certificate of naturalization or by a certificate of non existence of record

Yes you can use the same document, and all the civil records from aborad must be translated into italian and after that the civil records need apostille from Secretary of State. All the civil records need affidavit or amendament if there is any name misspelled

I always suggest you to contact the closest Italian consulate for more infos
I hope it helps
bye Riccardo :lol:

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yasmin008
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Re: A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby yasmin008 » 22 Jul 2007, 20:18

Ciao Riccardo,

I will go to the Italian Embassy here in Chicago this week and find out exactly what I need.

Two more questions though, about naturalization:

You said..."If your great grandfather from Italy naturalized before your grandfather was born then it means that you are not qualified."

If someone is naturalized in the U.S., does that mean they automatically renounce their Italian citizenship?
Is that why a naturalized person's children won't get citizenship rights?

Also, my grandfather was born here, he was a citizen.
If he did not renounce his Italian citizenship, but didn't claim it either, does that mean he still passes Italian citizenship rights to us?

grazie!

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Re: A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby mler » 22 Jul 2007, 21:43

Yes, if before 1992, naturalization meant renunciation of Italian citizenship, and jure sanguinis elibibility stopped at that point. This does not apply to your grandfather, who, as an American by birth, never needed to naturalize.

Your grandfather did not need to claim Italian citizenship for his descendents to qualify. In fact, like most Americans of Italian descent, he probably never knew he had it. In a sense, that Italian citizenship remained dormant until, after 1992, it became possible to claim that citizenship right without losing U.S. citizenship.

Since you are using the maternal line (traced back to your g-grandfather) you will probably need at minimum:

Great grandfather
Italian Birth Certificate
Certificate of "no record" (proof he did not naturalize) or a
proof of naturalization after your grandfather's birth
Italian death certificate

Grandfather
U.S. Birth Certificate
Marriage Certificate
Death Certificate (if applicable)

Mother
U.S. Birth Certificate
Marriage Certificate

You
Birth Certificate
Marriage Certificate (if applicable)
Children's Birth Certificates (if applicable)

All documents except naturalization documents and documents originating in Italy will require an apostille.

You can all use the same documents if you are applying at the same consulate. Your father would be claiming citizenship through marriage and would only be eligible to apply after you mom's citizenship is recognized.

Best of luck.

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Re: A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby yasmin008 » 25 Jul 2007, 01:19

So, I called the Italian Embassy here in Chicago--three times--and no one answered and the voice mailbox is full. That's not a good sign.

I was trying to call because someone told me you become naturalized automatically after 5 years. . My mother says she thinks her grandparents had her father soon after they arrived here, but she's not sure.

If they had him 5 years or more after they came to the U.S., does that mean that they were automatically naturalized before his birth and that their son was not an Italian citizen?

Do people become automatically naturalized after living here for 5 years?

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Re: A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby mler » 25 Jul 2007, 02:31

A lot of immigrants to the U.S. would love that rule but, no, you do not automatically naturalize after five years. :D Actually, I think you need to be legally in the country for five years before you can APPLY for naturalization.

It seems you are likely to qualify, but now the hard work begins. You need to find out if and when he naturalized (or if he never naturalized), and then get the documents to prove it.

Best of luck.

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Re: A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby yasmin008 » 28 Jul 2007, 04:32

Thanks for all the quick replies!

Should I start with finding a "no record" naturalization certificate for my great grandparents? Is the best way to do that through USCIS? Or are there better services to get naturalization, birth and death records?

Do I need the birth, death AND marriage certificates of my great and grand parents? Or just the birth and death of my male ancestors from Italy?

If I get Italian citizenship, am I eligible to go to university free (or low cost) in any EU country?

Lots of questions here....

thanks for your help

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Re: A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby mler » 28 Jul 2007, 11:45

It would be better if first you could determine if and/or when your great grandparents naturalized. Let's assume greatgrandfather since the male line is easiest.

Check with www.ancestry.com to see if you can determine his status. The census records for 1920 and 1930 may list him as NA (naturalized), AL (alien) or PA (petition submitted). This should give you an indication of where to go next. If you discover that he never naturalized, you will have to go the USCIS route to obtain a "no record" letter. If he did indeed naturalize AND that naturalization took place AFTER your grandfather's birth, you may be able to obtain the preliminary naturalization documents (petition, declaration of intent, oath) through NARA. This is an easier process.

You will need marriage documents as well as birth and death documents. Sorry, I forgot to list a marriage certificate for your greatgrandfather, but you should get it.

As a citizen of Italy, you will be able to attend the university there, assuming you meet all the prerequisites. University study is not free, but it is considerably less expensive than that of a private college in the U.S. Remember, though, that most students attend the university from a liceo, which is not an exact equivalent of a U.S. high school diploma. You will need to check into this. As far as other European schools are concerned, I can only assume that EU citizenship would ease the process. The costs and admission requirements would probably vary from country to country.

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Re: A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby pastasugo » 28 Jul 2007, 15:10

I would try your regional NARA first. I sent them an email and they found our ancestor's paperwork the next day. Excellent service!

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Re: A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby yasmin008 » 12 Sep 2007, 03:41

So, if there are several of us, (me, my aunt, my sisters, my nephew, my husband...) who are interested in Italian citizenship through my great-grandparents, can we all apply with the same documents? I heard that this is possible. Does that mean we turn in all the documents translated with our birth certificates and pay one fee all together, or is it a separate fee for each person?

Anyone know how much all this costs (it is definitely worth it, whatever the cost...)?

Also, is it worth using one of those services that claim to do all the research for us? Which is the best?

thanks, gratzie, gracias.....yasmin

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Re: A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby pastasugo » 12 Sep 2007, 05:58

There is no fee for recognition of jus sanguinis citizenship.

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Re: Fees

Postby NOLA » 12 Sep 2007, 13:33

The only fee to be paid is for the passport when the consulate sends notification that you can come and apply.

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Re: A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby yasmin008 » 12 Sep 2007, 15:19

Isn't there costs for having everything translated and the apostille for documents not in Italy? I meant the overall costs involved in the process....

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Re: A bit confused on the Jan 1, 1948 clause

Postby mler » 12 Sep 2007, 17:13

Yes, the major cost is that to obtain documents, certifications, apostilles, etc. You may all use the same historical documents provided you are all applying at the same consulate. That means you must demonstrate that you legally reside within that consulate's jurisdiction.

The costs, of course, vary depending on the number of documents you need and where those documents are filed. From my experience, the cost of obtaining a certified document ranged from $10 to $30. The apostille, from $10 to $15. There may be additional costs for amendments, and if you require legal name changes, it can be even more costly. The total cost for me was approximately $500.


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