I have a new problem...

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
User avatar
Abruzzi17
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: 08 Sep 2007, 00:00
Location: Michigan

I have a new problem...

Postby Abruzzi17 » 14 Sep 2007, 17:03

So...let's start from the top. My great-grandfather Salvatore Bartoletti come over and was naturalized. He then went back to Italy and had my grandfather. I can't find any record of my great-mother's naturalization. When she died they didn't even know how to spell her name so they just wrote Mary--her name wasn't Mary. I am unsure of their marriage date too (as to whether it was before his naturalization or after). However, was my grandfather (Michele Bartoletti), who was born to an Italian mother & born in Italy, a citizen of both countries from the start? I don't know where to go or who to talk to in order to find out if I qualify for jus sanguinis through him. He served in WWII. My mother seems to think that this means he gave up his Italian rights...can someone please help me?! I am going nuts calling Consulates that don't have live people but just automated messages.

User avatar
drovedo
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 134
Joined: 24 Jan 2007, 00:00

Re: I have a new problem...

Postby drovedo » 14 Sep 2007, 17:19

Found this:

US Supreme Court Rulings

Rogers v. Bellei, 401 U.S. 815 (1971)
Aldo Mario Bellei was born in Italy in 1939 to an Italian father and an American mother. At birth, he acquired both Italian and US citizenship.

In the 1960's, he was notified that he had lost his US citizenship under a provision of the Immigration and Nationality Act that said a foreign-born US citizen would lose his citizenship unless he moved to the US and lived there for at least five years prior to reaching his 28th birthday.

Bellei took the State Department to court, challenging the validity of the law. However, he lost in the Supreme Court by a 5-4 decision. The majority (including three justices who had dissented in Afroyim v. Rusk), upheld the validity of the residency rule and held that the 14th Amendment's citizenship clause, central to the court's ruling in Afroyim, did not apply to people acquiring US citizenship by virtue of being born outside the US to an American parent.

Four justices (including three who had been in the majority in Afroyim), dissented, claiming that the majority was effectively abandoning the ruling in the earlier case.

Bellei is not too significant nowadays, since the provision under which he lost his US citizenship was repealed in 1978 (Public Law 95-432).

William Rogers was Secretary of State during Nixon's first term as President

Mandoli v. Acheson, 344 U.S. 133 (1952)
Joseph Mandoli was a dual US/Italian citizen by birth (born in the US to Italian parents). He left the US as an infant and moved to Italy with his parents. When he sought to return to the US in 1937, his claim to US citizenship was rejected because he had failed to return promptly to the US upon reaching the age of majority, and also because he had served briefly in the Italian army in 1931.

The Supreme Court ruled that the law, as it then stood, did not permit natural-born US citizens to be stripped of US citizenship for failing to return to the US upon reaching adulthood.

The court did not base its ruling in this case on any overriding constitutional arguments. Rather, it examined the legislative history of the portions of US citizenship law, and concluded that Congress had consciously chosen to make these provisions applicable only to naturalized US citizens (see Rogers v. Bellei below).

In particular, the court noted that although US law at that time required certain US citizens with childhood dual citizenship (such as those born abroad to American parents) to make a specific "election" of US citizenship (i.e., a declaration of allegiance followed by a return to the US) upon reaching adulthood, no such requirement applied to a person who had US citizenship on account of having been born in the US. Lower courts had apparently interpreted the Supreme Court's earlier decision in Perkins v. Elg as imposing such an "election" requirement quite broadly.

The court also decided that Mandoli's foreign military service did not warrant loss of his US citizenship because, under Mussolini's Fascist government, he really had had no choice but to join the Italian army.

Dean Acheson (Dean was his first name, not a title) was Secretary of State during Truman's second term as President.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did he serve in US military?

Have you ordered his Italian Birth Cert. yet?

Since Italian bases citizenship on parents nationality rather than birth I would contact a consulate that will answer the phone. Ask for the citizenship office.

User avatar
Abruzzi17
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: 08 Sep 2007, 00:00
Location: Michigan

Re: I have a new problem...

Postby Abruzzi17 » 14 Sep 2007, 17:28

His birth certificate is in Italy. He lived in the U.S. since he was 6! Your examples are of U.S. citizens living out of the U.S. I want to know if he still has Italian citizenship. I am getting very frustrated calling consulates. I have called all consulates between New York and San Francisco. I want to speak with someone who knows the answer but now one knows where to send me. Sorry if I sound harsh I don't intend to do so I am just getting upset with the consulates. ;)

User avatar
peggymckee
Elite
Elite
Posts: 264
Joined: 22 Jun 2007, 00:00

Re: I have a new problem...

Postby peggymckee » 14 Sep 2007, 19:07

Hi Abruzzi17--

May I suggest that you post your question on a different message board:

http://www.icgsmb.com/board/

The "Qualifying" section seems the right place for your question.

Also, when you describe your situation, give dates--they are important, especially in the more unusual cases.

Good luck. All the best, Peg
Surnames: Bertellotti - Ridolfi - Marchi


Return to “Emigration, Immigration, Naturalization and Italian citizenship”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest