name alteration

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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dematteo2
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name alteration

Postby dematteo2 » 17 Dec 2007, 18:07

The name on my bisnonno's certificate of naturalization is Albert Ciro De Matteo, which was changed from Alberto (on his birth certificate). Will this minor discrepancy have any impact on the application process? If so, how do I go about making any necessary changes to the document so that I don't get turned away by the consulate when it comes time to turn in everything I have? Thanks!!!

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peggymckee
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Re: name alteration

Postby peggymckee » 17 Dec 2007, 18:28

The consulate can be unpredictable--but many say a first name change which is just an English translation of the Italian first name is no problem. Moreover, I do not think there is any way to correct a naturalization certificate. In fact, I think such a change is considered a legal name change & so won't be a problem--assuming it's Albert from then on.

More importantly, what name (first, middle and last) is on GGF's marriage cert. & GF's birth cert? Good luck, Peg
Surnames: Bertellotti - Ridolfi - Marchi

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dematteo2
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Re: name alteration

Postby dematteo2 » 17 Dec 2007, 18:45

Thanks peggy. The name on my GGF's marriage certificate is Alberto, as he was married in Italy. I am still awaiting my GF's birth certificate, but if I were to guess what his father's name was at the time of birth I'd say Alberto. This is simply based on the fact that my GGF's first name on the 1920 census was Alberto and my GF was born just a year before it was taken.

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KrazyZia
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Re: name alteration

Postby KrazyZia » 20 Dec 2007, 22:34

Just wondering which consulate you are working with. I recently visited the Boston consulate. They would not accept the name change/translation excuse.

I'm in a jam because my grandfather's name change on his naturalization application was from the shiplist which was not correct either.

I've decided to research his American Passport application hoping for proof of his Italian name and his American name used together thus proving it's the same person. Hope this helps.

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Re: name alteration

Postby peggymckee » 21 Dec 2007, 03:18

Dear Zia,

How different were the names? Was it first name or surname? Many thanks, Peg
Surnames: Bertellotti - Ridolfi - Marchi

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Re: name alteration

Postby KrazyZia » 21 Dec 2007, 04:13

First name. Name on Italian birth certificate is Peppino Raffaele Brunetti. American translation Joseph Ralph. The last name was not changed. The ship list name was Gino. That name was used for Naturalization. It's kind of messy don't you think?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Joanna

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mler
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Re: name alteration

Postby mler » 21 Dec 2007, 13:33

Actually, Joanna, the first part is not a problem. Peppe (Peppino) is an Italian nickname for Giuseppe - English translation, Joseph. Ralph is an English translation of Raffaele. Often English translations of Italian names do not require amendments.

The "Gino" seems a probable issue, however. Is there any explanation for that change or is there a paper trial to identify Peppe as Gino?

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Re: name alteration

Postby peggymckee » 21 Dec 2007, 14:26

Hi Joanna--This is a long shot, but are you completely sure you have the right papers? What timeframe are we talking about?

Maybe you have the wrong Italian BC--or maybe the wrong naturalization papers. Can you give us a line-up of all his docs & the names used & dates? Did you GF have an SSN? Even if you don't think he did, try to get his SS-5. That may give you a lead to the right naturalization papers.

I believe that much more immigration info is now available on the web--maybe someone here will do some look-ups for you. Good luck, Peg
Surnames: Bertellotti - Ridolfi - Marchi

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Re: name alteration

Postby davidlatour » 21 Dec 2007, 20:34

I have the instructions for acquiring dual citizenship from the San Francisco consulate. In my case, they say they require you to type up a list of all discrepancies word for word and that major discrepancies like changes in surname or major changes in dates would have to be amended. Of course, I haven't finished the process yet, so I don't know how they actually are in practice.

In my case, my great-grandfather was born "Francesco," but took on the name "Frank" when he came to the U.S. Likewise, my great-grandmother was "Rosaria," but became "Rose." The only other discrepancy I've found was on their marriage certificate. It said my GGF was 22 when he would have turned 23 about 2 months before.

I'm hoping this all qualifies as "minor changes," but I'm going to contact the consulate and I'll let you know at least how the they are about this in SF.
Surnames: Campaniello - Ferraro - Paliano - Basile - Benvenuto - Rigieri

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KrazyZia
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Re: name alteration

Postby KrazyZia » 21 Dec 2007, 22:15

I'm quite certain that the naturalization papers are my grandfather's. He left them to my father when he died.

The problem is the application for naturalization or declaration of intention. Which the consolate requested as proof of a legal name change.

The reason it is a problem is that the proof of entry into the USA was taken directly from the shiplist manifest from 1917 on which they listed him as Gino next to his brother and his mother (so i know it's him). He was only 5 or 6 when he arrived in USA so he probably didn't care what the shiplist manifest said.

You will find my Great Grandmother Maria D'Aloia, My Grand Uncle Matteo Brunetti, and then my grandfather listed as Gino under that:

1917 shiplist page 1

1917 shiplist page 2

My grandfather upon arriving in USA took on the American name Joseph Ralph. His marriage certificate dated 1934 uses his American name despite the fact that he did not naturalize (legal name change) until 1941.

It's sort of a mess...

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Re: name alteration

Postby peggymckee » 21 Dec 2007, 23:01

Dear Joanna,

Is the following correct?

GGF: ____ Brunetti GGM: Maria D'Aloia. GGF either did not naturalize or naturalized after GF was 21--otherwise, GF would have been automatically naturalized as minor.

GF: Peppino Raffaele Brunetti b. Italy 1911, arrives in US 1917 under the name of Gino Brunetti. Once in US, started using the name Joseph Ralph. Married in 1934 under the name Joseph Ralph, but naturalized in 1941 under the name Gino as arrival name and Joseph Ralph as new American name.

All the best, Peg
Surnames: Bertellotti - Ridolfi - Marchi

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KrazyZia
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Re: name alteration

Postby KrazyZia » 21 Dec 2007, 23:13

GGF: Donato Antonio Brunetti (In US used the name Antonio Brunetti on all papers) didn't naturalize at all to my knowledge. If he did it would have to be after my GF because my GF naturalized long after leaving home and after marriage.

All the above stated information on my GF is accurate.

Thanks,

Joanna

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Re: name alteration

Postby peggymckee » 21 Dec 2007, 23:43

Joanna--does the Boston Consulate accept that you GGF (Donato Antonio) never naturalized? Do you have the famous "no record found" letter?

I'm wondering if Boston Consulate believes that GGF did in fact naturalize and that this is your problem--not the name of your GF. Can you tell us any more about what the Consulate said. All the best, Peg
Surnames: Bertellotti - Ridolfi - Marchi

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KrazyZia
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Re: name alteration

Postby KrazyZia » 22 Dec 2007, 00:04

The consulate never even touched on the subject of my GGF.

They just told me that my papers were not proof enough that my GF Peppino Raffaele Brunetti was Joseph Ralph Brunetti.

Papers presented:

GF:
Italian Birth Certificate
Naturalization Certificate
Marriage Certificate
Death Certificate

GM:
American Birth Certificate
Marriage Certificate
Death Certificate

My Parents:
Birth & Marriage Certificates
Notarized statement of no relinquishment of Italian Citizenship

Self:
Birth & Marriage Certificates
Notarized statement of no relinquishment of Italian Citizenship

There are spelling errors on my GM's papers. Those also need to be addressed, but the Consolate really stressed the name issue as being the problem more than anything else.

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Re: name alteration

Postby peggymckee » 22 Dec 2007, 00:43

And did they give you any hint about what would be enough proof?
Surnames: Bertellotti - Ridolfi - Marchi


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