Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby warriorrabbit » 22 Dec 2007, 19:33

I found the Lamanna womenfolk arriving through Boston in 1903 -- four daughters (Giovanna, Rosa, Francesca, Nicoletta) traveling with their mom.

I know from the 1910 census that the mother had seven children, five who lived. Son Pasquale, who I never found a passenger record for, makes five.

However, in 1910 I have a Lilla rather than a Nicoletta. Lilla (later Lilli) is two years younger than the girl who was on the boat would have been (15 instead of 17), but the ages/years are always sort of sketchy anyhow. On the other hand, Nicoletta could be one of the dead children and Lilli could have traveled with Pasquale and/or father Giuseppe, whom I can't find. (Although she would have been 7 or 8 if she went with them, and while possible, it seems more likely she'd travel with mom and the other girls.)

Could Lilli and Nicoletta be the same? It doesn't seem right, when Nicole would have been the more obvious Anglicization, but...What's the Italian version of Lillian?

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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby suanj » 22 Dec 2007, 20:36

Lillian=Liliana
regards, suanj
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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby warriorrabbit » 22 Dec 2007, 23:11

Ok, thanks. Well, then that just doesn't seem right. Nicoletta and Lilla must be separate children.

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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby misbris » 23 Dec 2007, 01:47

Nicole is a pretty modern name. I doubt that in 1910 that it would have been a choice, unless the family had some French background. Nicoletta could have become Lilla through a transcription error on the census. Have you found any other census records that verify. Another possibility could be that Nicoletta (17) was married by the time of the 1910 census and that's why she did not appear.

What town in Italy did the family come from? Have you checked NY and Philly for Pasquale and Giuseppi?

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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby vj » 23 Dec 2007, 15:54

Nicoletta and Lilla must be separate children.

Checked NEHGS for any related births/deaths in MA
Only found Giovanna’s marriage (& the birth of her
two daughters)

New England Historic Genealogical Society
Massachusetts Vital Records, 1841-1910

18 Sep 1904
Cambridge
Both born in Italy
Both 1st marriage
Married by Roberto Biasotti Pr.
12 North Sq

Giovanni Militello 25, Barber
Father Letterio Militello
Mother Letteria Donato

Joannina La Manna 22
Father Giuseppe La Manna
Mother Maria Certo

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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby warriorrabbit » 23 Dec 2007, 16:03

Hi,

I actually just found 'Nicoletta' the other day, as I just started looking in the Boston manifests. Prior to that I'd been exploring Ellis exclusively, and couldn't find any of the Lamannas.

In 1910 there are two Lillas, one that might be Nicoletta and the other her sister's young daughter. In 1920 the niece is still there and is now Lillie, and by then the sister who is Lilla (and might be Nicoletta) is married. I know Lilla married a guy named Serge Nappi, but that was something I also discovered recently and I haven't looked for them in a census yet (maybe today, if I get a chance).

I have looked in both NYC and Boston records and can't find Giuseppe or Pasquale Lamanna. (Well, I *might* have found Pasquale Lamanna, but I'm not entirely sure -- haven't been able to verify.) The family came from Messina.

Also I can't discount that the mother had 5 of 7 living, according to the 1910 census. Either Lilla and Nicoletta are the same and the 5/7 thing is off (why not, all the dates are), or Nicoletta is one of the dead children. Perhaps I'll never know.

Um, where would I find records for Philadelphia?

WHOA! Just previewed this message and saw vj's note. Aha! The husband! I had 1903 manifest to 1910 census, and by then Giovanna was a widow, so I never knew his name. And look, both girls born in MA. The censuses said one was born in MA and one in NY. The muddled dates and info kill me!

Thanks vj for solving that one!!!

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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby vj » 23 Dec 2007, 19:01

Hard to tell if this is your Giuseppe LaManna
Age looks close, from Messina, headed to Boston
Joining a cousin Sergi (Sergio?) Placido (may be De Placido or Di Placido)

1897 manifest

Um, where would I find records for Philadelphia?
You have access to ancestry.com?
They're there :wink:
Valarie

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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby misbris » 23 Dec 2007, 19:22

Census details are only as good as the person reporting and the person recording. Remember the old computer saying "garbage in, garbage out" Spelling is often horrible, ages are off, males turn into females, etc. The basic historical info is valid, addresses, birthplaces, occupations. I usually try to verify with other records or censuses. People didn't move around as much, and families tended to stay in the same neighborhood or area.

Another thought is that those two missing children died in Italy, or were miscarried or stillborn. It might be very hard to find those records.

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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby warriorrabbit » 30 Dec 2007, 21:44

Hi,

That might be my Giuseppe LaManna. I probably ignored him before because I didn't know they all lived in Boston first before then moving to NYC. I've been chasing them around NYC and NJ via censuses and death records, etc., and had no reason to think they went to Boston first, esp. as the cousins they later lived with were already in NYC.

I figured at least one of the children died in Italy, I just wasn't sure if I should be looking for a manifest with Lilly or if Nicoletta was it. In the meantime, I've found out Lilli and Nicoletta were one and the same.

I have access to Ancestry via the library, so I'll have to wait until the holidays are over.

On those MA vital records...are there registries only, or are there certificates to be had? It seems like the registry has almost all the info, except, for example, witnesses to the marriage...

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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby vj » 30 Dec 2007, 22:25

On those MA vital records...are there registries only

When they're available for viewing they're only
the town registries. Often it gives the priest's
name - may possible to check the church records?
(Sometimes you can find the priest's name in a
census)

for example:
from the marriage record above
Married by Roberto Biasotti Pr.
1900 Biasotti
with his address, there should be a church nearby...

Valarie

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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby geatano_leonardo » 10 Jul 2009, 19:35

I can state that in this particular case Lilli IS (or was) Nicoletta. She was Lillian Nappi for most of her life. She was Married to Sergio Nappi for more than 51 years.

It has nothing to do with translations. My understanding was done prior to her actual immigration. So some older docs may list her as Nicoletta.

She more often went by Lillian, but when younger she was called Lilli by others. At some point Lillian was the name of record for the rest of her life.

This is firsthand info, as she was my great grandmother, making me a distant cousin of the remaining Lamanna's she was related. My post name is not my real name.

Lilli lived until the age of 103 + (we think she shaved a year or two off her age at some point). Her ashes are buried in Mahwah, N.J. in Mayrest catholic cemeeary.

Not sure of why the first name switch, I have the information written down somewhere but not handy. In any case, it was voluntary and not forced by immigration or other reasons.

I think it was either a "middle" name or the result of an often used nickname. Later when ID become more formalized, long standing immigrants would re-register with varied agencies and some would apply these name changes at that point. Much like when someone changes name for marriage.

She arrived in the U.S. at age 8 althoug some docs may have mistated 14. Later She married Sergio Nappi. Some of her sisters also began to use differing first names.

Sergio was from Molfetta Lillian/Lilli/Nicoletta was from of Sicily.

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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby geatano_leonardo » 10 Jul 2009, 21:42

I made typo in some of the prior posts -
I meant Lamanna (not Lemanna) Sorry!

In any case, in this case Lilli is / was Nicoletta...I state this from first hand knowledge as one of her relatives.

be well

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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby warriorrabbit » 11 Jul 2009, 07:51

Hi there,

Yes, that post is quite old. I've since filled in the gaps. I know Lilly (Nicoletta) was born 17 Aug 1895, and she married Sergio on June 10, 1917. He died in 1969.

Perhaps Sergio was from Molfetta? The LaMannas are definitely from Messina.

Anyhow, that makes us related!

T.

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Re: Lilli vs. Nicoletta

Postby geatano_leonardo » 11 Jul 2009, 17:19

Yes your dates are correct. Lilli lived over 100 years and two of her children only outlived her by 8 or so years, 1 son remains.

I met Joe her nephew, that in early 1990's, he was about 70 then, he is a cousin to my grandmother. I have a picture of him at the time, someplace. He came out east to visit his cousins. I also think we got to meet Roger at some point too.

Ill pm other info /questions so as not to post the details in open forums.

thnx - be well.


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