Question about required documents

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TheInvisibleFisherman
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Question about required documents

Postby TheInvisibleFisherman » 25 Aug 2008, 03:49

Hello all, my name is Chris and I currently live in Houston, Texas.

I'm attempting to apply for italian citizenship jure sanguinis through my great great grandfather.


Me --> Mother --> Grandmother --> Great Grandfather --> Great Great Grandfather


My question is:

Will the documents from my non-Italian side be required as well by the consulate?



For example:

Might they ask for the birth certificate of my great grandmother?

Me --> Mother --> Grandmother --> Great Grandfather -- Great Great Grandmother?

A thousand thanks in advance.

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ricbru
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Re: Question about required documents

Postby ricbru » 25 Aug 2008, 12:30

Hello,
here it is all the paperworks you need to collect.
I hope it helps
bye Riccardo

Italian Citizenship from:
MOTHER - GRANDMOTHER - GREAT GRANDFATHER

Mother - Grandmother - Great Grandfather:
Your maternal grandmother was born in your native country, your maternal great grandfather was an Italian citizen at the time of her birth, your mother was born after January 1st, 1948, and neither you nor your mother nor your grandmother ever renounced your right to Italian citizenship. If citizenship is acquired by birth in your country and you meet all these conditions, you qualify for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis. You must obtain certified copies of the following documents:

Your maternal great grandfather's birth certificate from Italy.
Your maternal great grandmother's birth certificate.
Your great grandparents' marriage certificate. (If married outside of Italy, you will need an apostille and a translation into Italian.)
Your maternal great grandfather's certificate of naturalization OR statement of "No Records"
Your maternal grandmother's birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your maternal grandfather's birth certificate
Your grandparents' marriage certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your mother's birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your father's birth certificate
Your parents' marriage certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your birth certificate (with apostille and translation)
Your marriage certificate, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
Your spouse's birth certificate, if applicable
Birth certificates for all your children under the age of eighteen, if applicable (with apostille and translation)
Any applicable divorce decrees/certificates (with apostille and translation)
Death certificates for anyone listed above (with apostille and translation, if for your mother, grandmother or great grandfather)

All Certificates: must be new “CERTIFED COPIESâ€

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Re: Question about required documents

Postby andonimi » 26 Aug 2008, 00:13

vb

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Re: Question about required documents

Postby johnnyonthespot » 26 Aug 2008, 00:33

andonimi wrote:Wow.. that's sad.. Does that mean that I am not eligible for dual citizenship? :cry:
Both of my paternal grandparents were born in Sicily. My grandpop was naturalized in 1921. My father was born in 1930.
I'm not sure when my grandmother was naturalized. It had to be after 1924 because that's when she came to the US.


Even so, women could not pass on citizenship prior to 1948, so if your father was born before that he could not have attained citizenship through his mother either.

How about your mother's side of the family? Irish by any chance? (Ireland has a somewhat liberal policy regarding citizenship jure sanguinis as well, though not as liberal as Italy's).

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Re: Question about required documents

Postby andonimi » 26 Aug 2008, 01:32

vg

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Re: Question about required documents

Postby andonimi » 26 Aug 2008, 01:59

vb

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Re: Question about required documents

Postby wldspirit » 26 Aug 2008, 03:14

Census information is not 100% reliable, often times the person collecting the information misunderstood the accents, and sometimes....the person giving the information wasn't completely truthful.....such as a womans age!!!
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Re: Question about required documents

Postby wldspirit » 26 Aug 2008, 03:17

On another note......have you attempted to collect the actual naturalization documents to verify the exact dates??
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Re: Question about required documents

Postby johnnyonthespot » 26 Aug 2008, 05:42

andonimi wrote:
johnnyonthespot wrote:
andonimi wrote:Wow.. that's sad.. Does that mean that I am not eligible for dual citizenship? :cry:
Both of my paternal grandparents were born in Sicily. My grandpop was naturalized in 1921. My father was born in 1930.
I'm not sure when my grandmother was naturalized. It had to be after 1924 because that's when she came to the US.


Even so, women could not pass on citizenship prior to 1948, so if your father was born before that he could not have attained citizenship through his mother either.

How about your mother's side of the family? Irish by any chance? (Ireland has a somewhat liberal policy regarding citizenship jure sanguinis as well, though not as liberal as Italy's).


LOL! How did you know that my mom's family is Irish? Unfortunately, for some reason I'm not interested in Irish citizenship. I doubt that I would be eligible anyway, since the Irish side came here long before the Italian side of my family did.
Just so I'm clear.. woman can pass on their Italian citizenship only if their child was born after 1948? Who made up that rule? I hate it!! I betcha I'm not the only one here unhappy about that one.
Thanks for the info. :cry:


I know of an awful lot of Italian men from the period in question who married Irish women...

Couple of points:

Before the law was changed in 1948, Italian women were left out of many of life's important facets; the inability to pass on citizenship was just one. Kudos to the Italian legislature for recognizing the unfairness of the old law and changing it. Unfortunately, the change came too late for many, many, people.

There are two reasons why most people apply for Italian citizenship: a) because they wish to honor thier heritage, or b) because they want access to italy and the European Union. Under current law (and this one highly unlikely to ever change), citizenship in any EU country gives you unfettered access to every other EU country including the right to live, work, and play, and have access to health care, education, etc, benefits. So, if your goal is to be able to one day move to Italy, Irish citizenship will get you there just as surely as will Italian citizenship.

As I said in my earlier post, Ireland offers citizenship jure sanguinis just as Italy does; the major difference being that Italy allows you to go back an unlimited number of generations to find an Italian citizen ascendant, whereas Ireland limits you to your grandparents. You can find more info at the Ireland Embassy's web site.

By the way, I agree with another poster who pointed out that your evidence as to your Italian grandfather's naturalization date is too sketchy to be reliable. You should pull out all the stops to get copies of the actual naturalization documents (in particular, the Petition for Citizenship and the Oath of Allegiance). You can find numerous threads here which discuss the quickest ways to obtain these documents; as a starter, what city and state did your grandfather live in during the time that he most likely naturalized?

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Re: Question about required documents

Postby wldspirit » 26 Aug 2008, 06:41

If you need assistance, provide the full names of your ancestors as well as
birthdates,and as pointed out above, the states in which they may have naturalized in. There are some documents online which may give you more detailed information.
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Re: Question about required documents

Postby johnnyonthespot » 26 Aug 2008, 13:07

johnnyonthespot wrote:As I said in my earlier post, Ireland offers citizenship jure sanguinis just as Italy does; the major difference being that Italy allows you to go back an unlimited number of generations to find an Italian citizen ascendant, whereas Ireland limits you to your grandparents. You can find more info at the Ireland Embassy's web site.


I should clarify this for the record.

If I recall correctly, you can go back one or two additional generations if (!) enough of your ancestors are still living and if (!) they themselves are willing to apply for Irish citizenship.

As an example, if your great-great-grandmother was born in Ireland and your great-grandmother born in the US and your grandmother is still living

a) Your grandmother applies for Irish citizenship based on her grandmother's birth in Ireland

b) Your mother, if she desires, applies for citizenship based on your grandmother's newly-granted citizenship

c) You apply for citizenship based either on your mother's or your grandmother's previously granted citizenship

Well, that's my understanding of the rules...

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Re:

Postby andonimi » 26 Aug 2008, 21:09

vv

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Re: Question about required documents

Postby johnnyonthespot » 26 Aug 2008, 21:38

andonimi wrote:
wldspirit wrote:On another note......have you attempted to collect the actual naturalization documents to verify the exact dates??
wldspirit

No, I haven't done that yet. I think that this manifest is self evident though. Your thoughts? He's on line 26, Pietro Certo. It says US citizens at the top too.. That pretty much zaps my chances..

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0026

For johnny.. thanks for all of that info. My Irish ancestors go back very far in the US, and my mother wouldn't do that for me. Believe me! Thank you for that education. Much appreciated.
I'm still very surprised that I'm not eligible for Italian citizenship. 8O Goodness.. I am only 2nd generation American. (half of me, anyway) lol
Oh well... :cry: I can atleast visit...


Look, are you absolutely positive that the Pietro Certo on this manifest is your grandfather? This would not be the first time someone followed a manifest only to learn later that it was a different person. I am very suspicious because the 1930 census listed both grandparents as aliens.

I really think you should not jump to any conclusions until you have naturalization papers in hand. Tell us what you know about your grandfather (especially where he lived in the US) and folks here can help you find the naturalization papers.

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R

Postby andonimi » 26 Aug 2008, 22:48

vf


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