Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

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maslan
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Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby maslan » 13 Sep 2008, 16:59

I hope you can help me find some members of my family.
I am working on my family tree and I have run into a block. My grandfather's name was Antonio Pacelli. He was born In San Salvatore Telesino in October of 1875. He arrived in the US in 1895 and settled in Wilmington, Delaware. He became a citizen in October of 1896. He married Sabatella Bocchini on December 3, 1899 and he passed away about 1910. I cannot find his parents on Ancestry.com.
My hope is that someone has access to the baptismal records from San Salvatore Telesino during this time period or that someone can tell me how to access the church records. The other names associated with Antonio are "Scagsaro Lucia Pacelli", Antonio de Raffaelo Pacelli, Raffaele Paulle and Lucia Cofari. These names were read to me over the phone by my cousin and I am not sure if the spelling is entirely accurate. Perhaps 2 of these names belong to Antonio Pacelli's parents.
Can you help?
Thanks a lot!!!
Ann Marie

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby vj » 13 Sep 2008, 21:19

Hi Ann Marie
Welcome to the Forum!
Valarie

Just for everyone’s reference, possible census records:

1900 census
1910 census
pg 2

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby maslan » 13 Sep 2008, 21:25

vj wrote:Hi Ann Marie
Welcome to the Forum!
Valarie

Just for everyone’s reference, possible census records:

1900 census
1910 census
pg 2
Thanks Valarie
I have seen these. Do you know where I can get records from Italy?
Ann Marie

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby vj » 13 Sep 2008, 21:47

Ann Marie,

I checked the LDS Library Catalog,
they have civil records on microfilm up to 1860...
Topic: Italy, Benevento, San Salvatore Telesino - Civil registration
Titles: Registri dello stato civile, 1810-1860 San Salvatore Telesino (Benevento). Ufficio dello stato civile

If you're interested in these after you get Antonio's records, you would
go to your nearest Family History Center to order (rent) and view these.

To get Antonio's record, you'll probably need a pretty close birth date...
Do you have his death certificate? It may also list his parents' names.

Quite a few of us have used this interactive form letter to write for records:
http://www.circolocalabrese.org/resourc ... civile.asp

To help fill in the blanks on the form:

Comune: San Salvatore Telesino
CAP Code: 82030
Provincial abbreviation: BN

Ufficio dello Stato Civile
Commune of San Salvatore Telesino
92030 BN
ITALY

Valarie

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby dragoni » 14 Sep 2008, 01:59

ann marie:

my great-grandfather was named antonio domenico pacelli who was born in 1867 in dragoni after his father moved form san salvatore around 1850. he settled in new castle...pennsylvania. odd coincidence. as i was researching his family in san salvatore, i kept a record of every pacelli listed in the birth, marriage and death records for the 1809 to 1860 period records are available. with the information you provided, it identified that antonio's father was raffaele. i will search my database to see if he is there and let you know.

tom

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby maslan » 14 Sep 2008, 02:31

dragoni wrote:ann marie:

my great-grandfather was named antonio domenico pacelli who was born in 1867 in dragoni after his father moved form san salvatore around 1850. he settled in new castle...pennsylvania. odd coincidence. as i was researching his family in san salvatore, i kept a record of every pacelli listed in the birth, marriage and death records for the 1809 to 1860 period records are available. with the information you provided, it identified that antonio's father was raffaele. i will search my database to see if he is there and let you know.

tom
Thank you so much Tom and Valarie. This is great information, Tom...it would be wonderful if you could share your information with me. That really is a coincidence. How did you get your information on the families in Italy?
Ann Marie

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby dragoni » 14 Sep 2008, 03:31

ann marie:

after looking though the 1575 or so entries I have here is what I found using the one clue you provided antonio di raffaele. in italian this is a means to identify the father (di or from). someone named antonio had a father named raffaele – however I don’t know that this is your antonio or not. i could not find any of the other surnames you listed in those records. for the records I have created from san salvatore civil records there are no antonio’s born to a raffaele through 1860. however, i did find the following raffaeles in the records:

(1) raffaele born 08/15/1843 to filippo (1808) and mariangela pacelli (1805);
(2) angelo raffaele born 09/15/1836 to antonio (1806) and maria teresa casbarra (1806), antonio was born 04/20/1806 to bartolomeo (1774) and barbara rabuano and was married 11/15/1827, bartolomeo was born 1774, died 3/31/1837, to antonio and aurelia aquaviva;
(3) raffaele born 04/01/1821 to mariano and maria catarinaldi;
(4) angelo raffaele born circa 1819 to nicolangelo and vincenza pellardi;

without knowing antonio’s parents names you cannot be 100% sure if any of these are your guy. if your pacellis were living in san salvatore during this period i have a hunch that (2) is your line based on a couple of factors. first the traditional naming pattern of the first male child being named after the paternal grandfather. only one of those combinations above include both the raffaele and antonio names. second, the vast majority of men i identified had children between the ages of 20 and 50 – your antonio’s birth date fits this range for his father.

but as vj noted you should contact the civil record office in san salvatore to get your grandfathers birth record which will identify his parents. or his death record from the us which may list his parents names.

the surname pacelli in san salvatore is akin to smith in any large us city. lots of em and they are not all directly related. i simply spent 2 years looking through the civil records for san salvatore and wrote down every bit of information for every person with that surname and created family trees for each distinct line i found. the marriage records have the treasure load of information as they include church extracts of death records for parents and grandparents many times. those enabled me to get to 1693.

have faith. all i knew was my great-grandfathers name and the hometown his family moved to from san salvatore. with the help of those italian records, a little luck, understanding abit of italian, trying to remember my latin from high school, and folks here on this and other forums, i have been able to trace my pacelli line back to 1693.

after you get your grandfather’s parents names i will help you find their line if they lived in san salvatore during the period from 1809-1860.

tom

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby dragoni » 14 Sep 2008, 03:35

ann marie:

and one other clue supports my hunch. your grandfather antonio named is first son ralph - americanized version of raffaele. likely antonio's father was raffaele.

tom

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby maslan » 14 Sep 2008, 03:40

dragoni wrote:ann marie:

and one other clue supports my hunch. your grandfather antonio named is first son ralph - americanized version of raffaele. likely antonio's father was raffaele.

tom
Tom
Thanks for the all the information.
You are amazing!!!
How did you know that he named his 1st child Ralph?
What a detective you are...lol
AMM

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby dragoni » 14 Sep 2008, 03:49

ann marie:

from vj's post of the census-it listed his oldest living son as ralph.

i also found some information for bartolomeo's father antonio for raffaele(2) above. that antonio was born around 1724, died 08/29/1796, and his father was felice (born likely between the dates 1674-1704).

tom

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby dragoni » 14 Sep 2008, 03:55

ann marie:

here are naturalization records for antonio pacelli in wilmington delaware. you can contact them to see if this is your guy or not. those may have information about his parents.

Pacelli Antonio
1896 Italy New Castle
1217.31 Vol. 4, page 289 Final Papers - 2nd Papers

Pacelli Antonio
1894 Italy New Castle
1217.31 Vol. 4, page 8 Final Papers - 2nd Papers

Pacelli Antonio
1896 Italy New Castle
1217.35 Naturalizations - Petitions

Pacelli Antonio
1888-1894 Italy New Castle
1217.35 Naturalizations - Petitions

tom

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby maslan » 14 Sep 2008, 04:00

dragoni wrote:ann marie:

here are naturalization records for antonio pacelli in wilmington delaware. you can contact them to see if this is your guy or not. those may have information about his parents.

Pacelli Antonio
1896 Italy New Castle
1217.31 Vol. 4, page 289 Final Papers - 2nd Papers

Pacelli Antonio
1894 Italy New Castle
1217.31 Vol. 4, page 8 Final Papers - 2nd Papers

Pacelli Antonio
1896 Italy New Castle
1217.35 Naturalizations - Petitions

Pacelli Antonio
1888-1894 Italy New Castle
1217.35 Naturalizations - Petitions

tom
Thanks Tom!
I have one page of his naturalization documents from Oct 1, 1896 but this does not list his parents. Perhaps they have more pages in Delaware. I will contact them.
I am going to sleep now...
Goodnight
AMM

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby maslan » 15 Sep 2008, 01:09

maslan wrote:
dragoni wrote:ann marie:

here are naturalization records for antonio pacelli in wilmington delaware. you can contact them to see if this is your guy or not. those may have information about his parents.

Pacelli Antonio
1896 Italy New Castle
1217.31 Vol. 4, page 289 Final Papers - 2nd Papers

Pacelli Antonio
1894 Italy New Castle
1217.31 Vol. 4, page 8 Final Papers - 2nd Papers

Pacelli Antonio
1896 Italy New Castle
1217.35 Naturalizations - Petitions

Pacelli Antonio
1888-1894 Italy New Castle
1217.35 Naturalizations - Petitions

tom
Thanks Tom!
I have one page of his naturalization documents from Oct 1, 1896 but this does not list his parents. Perhaps they have more pages in Delaware. I will contact them.
I am going to sleep now...
Goodnight
AMM
Hi Valarie and Tom
I will be sending a letter tomorrow to
Ufficio dello Stato di San Salvatore Telesino. Hopefully I will get more info from them
I am sure that I will be back here asking for help soon :)
Ann Marie

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby maslan » 27 Sep 2008, 02:36

I am becoming frustrated. I sent the letter to the official office of the records of San Salvatore Telesino. I have a friend in Rome. He found the email address of this agency and advised me to email the letter to them and he said that he would call them and follow up. Well... he never has time to follow up..lol. Hopefully next week..
In the meantime, one of my cousins in Delaware sent me copies of documents in Italian from San Salvatore. I can't read it but my cousin alleges that this document states that my grandfather was single and did not have a wife in Italy. This document was issued the year of his marriage to my grandmother (1899). This document has some names in it but the handwriting is so ornate, that I have not completely deciphered them
One name that I think I can read is "Lucia Alopari" and another that looks like "Lecca" or "Leucca". Do those names seem familiar to you Tom?
Thanks
Ann Marie

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Re: Antonio Pacelli from San Salvatore Telesino

Postby liviomoreno » 27 Sep 2008, 06:42

maslan wrote:... This document has some names in it but the handwriting is so ornate, that I have not completely deciphered them
One name that I think I can read is "Lucia Alopari" and another that looks like "Lecca" or "Leucca". ...

If you post the documents, we can try to decipher them for you.


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