Need a look up in New York

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anjgi
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Need a look up in New York

Postby anjgi » 10 Nov 2008, 12:37

Hi, I'm researching the Carotenuto family. They emmigrated to New York in 1896. I have found them in the Ellis Island records. They were Luigi and Carmela and their children Antonetta, Antonio and Raffaele. I know that they had two other children, Gaetano and Guiseppina and that their mother died and these two children were taken back to Italy to be brought up by relatives. Antonio, Antonetta and Raffaele remained in NY. I have found Raffaele's death in 1953 (he was born in 1890) and believe he was naturalised in 1907.

I am looking for anyone who may be descended from this family, specifically Antonetta, Antonio or Raffaele, who may have further information about the family. We are also looking for the birth records of Gaetano and Guiseppina who were twins born in 1898. It may be that their mother died at the time of their birth - this is a family myth we need to prove or disprove.

Any and all help gratefully received. I am in London, UK so am happy to do a reciprocal look-up in records offices in London.

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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby suanj » 10 Nov 2008, 14:47

hi, this is the census of 1900 year:
1900 United States Federal Census
about Luigi Cardennta
Name: Luigi Cardennta
[Luigi Carotenuto]
Home in 1900: Brooklyn Ward 2, Kings, New York
Age: 40
Birth Date: Jun 1859
Birthplace: Italy

Race: White
Ethnicity: American
Immigration Year: 1890 ( 1896)
Relationship to head-of-house: Head
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Spouse's Name: Carmela
Marriage Year: 1882
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 18
Residence : New York City, Kings, New York
Occupation: View Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Luigi Cardennta 40 (jun 1859)
Carmela Cardennta 36 (may 1864)
Antonietta Cardennta 16 (jan 1884)
Antonio Cardennta 14 ( may 1886)
Raffaele Cardennta 10 (oct 1889)
Michele Cardennta 3 (sep 1896)
Emilia Cardennta 2 ( mar 1898)
Lucia Cardennta 8.12 (nov 1899)
Antonio Cardennta 66 (may 1834 ...father of Luigi???-widowed)
http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... utogx5.jpg
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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby suanj » 10 Nov 2008, 14:54

this is another trip of Luigi and Raffaele returning at home from Antonio son in Brooklyn:
http://ellisisland.org/search/shipmanif ... 2598140301
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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby anjgi » 10 Nov 2008, 16:10

ah... now.... thank you for that. I think I have the wrong family. Oh dear. Back to the drawing board.

Family 'legend' had it that Gaetano and his sister were born in Brooklyn. The only Carotenuto that appears in the Ellis Island records coming from the vague area where we know the family still live today in Italy is this one... but... Gaetano and Guiseppina were supposedly born in 1898, or at least their marriage certificates say as much. But... this would appear to show that no children of these names were with this family, unless they were born later. That would make them younger than they both said they were... not beyond the bounds of possibility as he didn't actually know his birthday.

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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby anjgi » 10 Nov 2008, 16:31

Dear Suanj, could I prevail upon you to do another search for any other Luigi Carotenuto's that might be in New York in 1900? His father was definitely Luigi (Louis) as he is recorded as such on Gaetano's marriage certificate.
thanks

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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby suanj » 10 Nov 2008, 16:32

so you think that this 1900 census is no correct?
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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby suanj » 10 Nov 2008, 16:43

no more record equal or with similar spelling in 1900 census, this is the only record matching with many children first name... on 1900 census are Lucia Carotenuto born in nov 1899; by brooklyn birth index I found this Name: Luisella Carotenuto
Birth Date: 11 Nov 1899
Certificate Number: 18607
I believe same child, registered as Luisella...
in the first ship manifest it are also Antonio Carotenuto sr line 87 http://ellisisland.org/search/shipmanif ... 2879170087 in travel with Luigi Carmela and children, so this is right family
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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby anjgi » 10 Nov 2008, 16:57

Thank you so much. I think either it is the right family and they were younger than they said they were, or it is the wrong family and I need to look elsewhere to find them. Perhaps I need to go back to records in Italy. He always told everyone he was born in Brooklyn New York but was taken back to San Guiseppe Vesuviano, near Napoli, when he was very young. When he was about 12 he came to the UK.

One his marriage certificate, in 1919 he said he was 21. That would mean he was born in 1898. His twin sister said she was 26 in 1924. That would mean 1898. But the census doesn't show them and either they didn't know how old they were and thought that was their age, or it is the wrong family.

anyway, many thanks
Angela

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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby suanj » 10 Nov 2008, 17:06

they moved in New Jersey, after Brooklyn residence.... I found Antonio Carotenuto passport born the 9 may 1886 in Boscotrecase, the family was resident in Brooklyn until 1909.. after in New Jersey; and back in Brooklyn:


first passport

http://img129.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... io1sh3.jpg

second passport
pag 1 http://img380.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 201qb3.jpg
pag 2 http://img366.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 202xb3.jpg
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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby suanj » 10 Nov 2008, 17:10

on the ship's manifest are wrote Boscotrecase as birthplace...
in the 1942 Raffaele Carotenuto was in NJ; the nearest relative is Lucy Mottola; I believe Lucia sister, married at Mottola and living in the 1942 in Maryland and died in New Jersey
http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... utotd5.jpg
better: I'm sure that is the sister because the birthdate of Lucy Mottola nee Carotenuto is right:
Lucy MOTTOLA - U.S. Social Security Death Index
Birth: 11 Nov 1899 State Where Number was Issued: New Jersey Death: Dec 1976


Luisella Carotenuto
Birth Date: 11 Nov 1899
Certificate Number: 18607


WWI Ralph Carotenuto born in Boscotrecase and resident in New jersey, this is YOUR Ralph Carotenuto, as Antonio Carotenuto passport... this are the members of family emigrated in 1896, father Luigi and mother Carmela; no doubts
http://img113.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... utokf0.jpg Ralph become widow when he was very young, in 1920 he was widow and with a children: Carmen 6 aged... Ralph was barber as also Antonio; Ralph living in the house of mother in law Emma E Smock, and naturalized in 1912... after the residence period in New Jersey, Ralph again back in New York and this is the right death record:

Raffaele CAROTENUTO - U.S. Social Security Death Index
Birth: 30 Nov 1889 State Where Number was Issued: New York Death: May 1953
as you can read the birthdate is the same on WWI and WWII draft registration card of Raffaele Carotenuto, and he is the only person with this name born in Boscotrecase ( as in WWI draft registration card) so the story abt Gaetano and Carolina I know nothing, but this are documents and this is Raffaele Carotenuto born in Boscotrecase, imm. in the 1896, son of Luigi and Carmela, with many siblings, but nobody Carolina or Gaetano... if this 2 children raised up in Italy this is possible... also I know that Raffaele made trip in Italy for the italian military service ....


Michele Carotenuto passport:
U.S. Passport Applications, 1795-1925
about Michele Carotenuto
Name: Michele Carotenuto
Birth Date: 13 Sep 1896
Birth Place: New York, NY
RESIDENCE: Boscotrecase, Naples,
Passport Issue Date: 12 May 1921
Father Name: Luigi Carotenuto
Father's Birth Location: Boscotrecaes Naples,
Father's Residence: Boscotrecase Naples,

Passport Includes a Photo: Y
Source: Passport Applications, January 2, 1906 - March 31, 1925 (M1490)
so Luigi Carotenuto was back in Italy


Michele Carotenuto passport picture
pag 1

http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... as1es6.jpg

pag 2
http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... ss2uk5.jpg

Luisella Carotenuto( Lucy Mottola nee Carotenuto) passport:

U.S. Passport Applications, 1795-1925
about Luisella Carotanuto
Name: Luisella Carotanuto
Birth Date: 11 Nov 1899
Birth Place: New York, NY
RESIDENCE: Boscotrecase, Naples,
Passport Issue Date: 12 May 1921
Father Name: Luigi Carotenuto
Father's Birth Location: Boscotrecase, Naples,
Father's Residence: Boscotrecase, Naples
,
Passport Includes a Photo: Y
Source: Passport Applications, January 2, 1906 - March 31, 1925 (M1490)

pag 1 http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... la1dj0.jpg
pag 2 http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... la1dj0.jpg

so in effect a part of family came back in Italy; it is possible that gaetano and Carolina was born in Italy and not in NY... however sure, Antonio and Raffaele Carotenuto was alone in 1910 census:

1910 United States Federal Census about Ralph Carotmate
Name: Ralph Carotmate
[Ralph Carotenuti]

Age in 1910: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Brother
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Home in 1910: Brooklyn Ward 5, Kings, New York
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Gender: Male
Year of Immigration: 1896
Neighbors: View others on page

Household Members: Name Age
Tony Carotmate
25
Ralph Carotmate
22

both barbers...
convinced?
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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby anjgi » 10 Nov 2008, 20:49

Wow! This is fantastic!

So much information! thank you so much!

Okay, this is the right family for all these people, but I still need to find Gaetano and Guiseppina.

they may be the son and daughter of Luigi and Carmela - which is what I originally thought, but...

They said they were born in Brooklyn. They claimed to be twins born in 1898. They said their father was Luigi - and having now seen both marriage certificates Gaetano said his father was an ice cream saleman and Guiseppina said he was a store keeper.

They were brought up in San Guiseppe Vesuviano, which is close to Boscotrecase.

they came to the UK when they were about 12... would they have had passports issued in Italy?

Their father Luigi married for a second time and his second wife was Irish. They went to live in Belgium. More than that I do not know.

So... thank you so much for this... I will look into it all further
Angela

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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby suanj » 10 Nov 2008, 21:00

Angela, on ship's manifest( 1896 and 1904) Luigi is a barber... the twins are no listed... if they born after 1900 maybe this could be possible... you know, not in 1900 census.... the family with exclusionof Antonio and Raffaele came back in Italy around 1910 ( on the Luisella passport)... in effects the 1910 showing only Antonio and Raffaele in USA.... now what you say is strange... because abt Gaetano and Carolina we have no proof... no traces... in All New York City Births, 1891-1902 database
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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby anjgi » 10 Nov 2008, 21:05

Yes, it is very odd.

Perhaps they weren't registered. I was told that their mother may have died. But then, what if this Luigi is not their father? What if I should be looking at a completely different Luigi?

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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby suanj » 10 Nov 2008, 21:10

also if they was not registered in 1900 census they must be... however here http://stevemorse.org/vital/nydeath.html you can search the death record abt carmela Carotenuto, if she died with twin's birth and if the twins was born effectively in NYC... I no found... http://stevemorse.org/vital/nydeath.html
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Re: Need a look up in New York

Postby anjgi » 10 Nov 2008, 22:07

Nothing. Nor on alternate spellings for name.


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