The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

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valentinaroan
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The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby valentinaroan » 21 Dec 2008, 16:33

Hello Everyone,
I'm hoping somebody might be able to offer some suggestions. I am helping my father put his application for citizenship together. We have have been searching for his great-grandparents Marriage Certificate, and have had no luck at all.
What we know:
-We believe that the marriage took place in the Campobasso province of Molise, near the towns of Cercemaggiore or Cercepiccola. However, both these towns have no record of the event.
-The marriage took place sometime in between 1883-1891.
What we have tried:
-Writing the towns in the surrounding area. Only one has replied with 'no records'.
-Looking at all their vital records from the U.S.
-Looking at their obituaries from the U.S.
-Searching for the record in the area where they settled in the U.S., in case they didn't marry until after they immigrated.
-Talking to family members.
Unfortunately, none of these methods have proven helpful.

At this point, what are our options? Could we hire a researcher/genealogist? We would appreciate any fresh ideas. Thanks!

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PeterTimber
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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby PeterTimber » 21 Dec 2008, 16:53

If you go to www.parrocchie.it and put in Cercemaggiore onthe right side there is a listing for one church. This church may or may not have a resident priest but worth a try and ask the churchman what the cost will be to check their records (If any priest resides there he maybe reluctant to search hence the reason to inquire as to cost).arriage took place in the parish church where the bride resided as a guide. =Peter=

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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby valentinaroan » 21 Dec 2008, 16:59

Thanks for responding! Could you try the link again, as it's not coming up for me. Would it be likely that the church would have a record, when the commune did not? Also, we thought the bride was born in Cercepiccola, but we have not been able to have a Birth Certificate for her, either. This is making us believe that perhaps we aren't looking in the right area, but we're not really sure what else to do.

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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby PeterTimber » 21 Dec 2008, 17:10

I did there was one R too many. sorry. =Peter=

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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby valentinaroan » 21 Dec 2008, 17:16

It's working now! I guess writing them a (paper) letter is the best way to go?

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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby PeterTimber » 21 Dec 2008, 17:17

Please clarify how you made your request for the civil records of her birth and to whom was it addressed? Was it in Italian language? Further Church records pre-existed comune records which commenced in 1809 in Southern and central Italy. Any prior civil records are spotty but not church records which are complete but could be elusive. =Peter=

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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby valentinaroan » 21 Dec 2008, 17:44

First we tried using a service, looking for the both birth certificates of the bride and groom and their marriage certificate in Cercemaggiore & Cercepiccola. We found the groom's Birth certificate in Cercemaggiore. However, no such luck for the bride's documents. We have certified letters from both communes stating that neither commune has any record. Then, my Dad and I wrote letters out to the surrounding communes (this was roughly 9 weeks ago now). These letter's were written by my Dad, who is fluent in Italian. So I'm sure they could understand them :wink: However, we did not include money or return envelopes. We addressed these letters in the manner of:
Ufficio dello Stato Civile
Comune di Riccia
86016 Riccia, CB
Italy

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PeterTimber
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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby PeterTimber » 21 Dec 2008, 18:37

You did the right thing so perhaps you can request her parents names and, in particular, her father and request a certificatoo di Stato di Famiglia storico inher fathers name which should show, if available, her birth and those of her siblings inthe town where they resided. Give this a try and toss in a couple of Eurois if you have any (US$ difficult for clerks). =Peter=

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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby JohnArmellino » 21 Dec 2008, 20:22

First we tried using a service, looking for the both birth certificates of the bride and groom and their marriage certificate in Cercemaggiore & Cercepiccola. We found the groom's Birth certificate in Cercemaggiore. However, no such luck for the bride's documents. We have certified letters from both communes stating that neither commune has any record.


Have you requested the pubblicazioni (marriage banns) from Cercemaggiore? These documents are recorded in both the groom's town and the bride's town. Therefore, since the groom was born in Cercemaggiore, pubblicazioni of his marriage should be found in that town, even if the marriage took place elsewhere. The pubblicazioni should tell you what town the bride was from; marriages usually took place in the bride's town. Unfortunately, the LDS has only filmed the records of Cercemaggiore through 1860, so you would have to go through the process of writing to the town.

In the alternative, you might consider hiring a researcher/genealogist near the provincial seat of Campobasso, since he or she would be able to search all of the records for the various towns of Campobasso in one location - the provincial archives, which are located in Campobasso. Each town is supposed to send copies of their records to the provincial archives. In fact, the LDS did their filming at the various provincial archives rather than each individual town. That should make the search more effective, as well as quicker and cheaper.
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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby JohnArmellino » 21 Dec 2008, 20:26

BTW, what are the surnames of the bride and the groom? Certain surnames are indigenous to certain towns.
John Armellino

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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby valentinaroan » 21 Dec 2008, 23:29

Excellent suggestions JohnArmellino! The brides surname was Irano and the groom's was LaPorta.

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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby JohnArmellino » 22 Dec 2008, 00:06

Well, I searched for the surname Irano via www.ItalyWorldClub.com and www.italia.indettaglio.it and got the same results. The only town in Molise where the surname Irano exists today is Cercepiccola. But you already wrote to that town in search of a marriage record to no avail. When you wrote to that town, did you also request the birth record of the bride? If not, you might want to try that, since birth records often include marginalia re the later marriage of the child.

You might also want to search the Cercepiccola records yourself. The LDS has micrfilmed the records for this town from 1809-1910. While I certainly don't question the good intentions of the Ufficio di Stato Civile, you have a vested interest and your search may be more thorough.

One interesting note: all fifteen LaPorta entries in my database originated in Roccaspromonte, which is now part of Castropignano. Yet the above search engines did not include Castropignano when I searched for the surname LaPorta.
John Armellino

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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby JohnArmellino » 22 Dec 2008, 00:19

On a whim, I searched for the surname Irano in the surrounding regions of Abruzzo, Campana, Lazio, and Puglia. There were only two returns: Roma (which almost always comes back) and Castelvenere in the province of Benevento. Castelvenere is about 25 miles (as the crow flies) from Cercemaggiore. I know it's a shot in the dark; but hey, you never know.
John Armellino

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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby misbris » 22 Dec 2008, 01:34

Here are the Irano who still live in Cercepiccola. The name is so rare, the chances are they are at least distant relatives.

http://www.paginebianche.it/execute.cgi ... ccola&ind=

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Re: The Mystery of the Missing Italian Marriage Certificate

Postby PeterTimber » 22 Dec 2008, 02:57

I still think the easiest way to go is the requst for the Certificato di Stato di Famiglia storico for the brides parents names which should give her birthdate and place of birth inthe town she was a resident at time of marriage. If there is no such family certificate available then further search is necessary but lets hope not. =Peter=


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