Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby allitalian1 » 06 Feb 2009, 20:34

Misbris and John, thank you for this new information. Wow, has this got me thinking.

I agree that the differences in dates and/or birthdays do not necessarily mean we are talking about two different people, but trust you can see how confusing it makes this process. I am staying with the idea that Filomena has been found and that this is one person. As I continue this search, I will look for other information on Filomena which will prove of disprove this theory.

The census records provided by Misbris were huge. Thank you. Firstly, it solved a large dilemna, which was whether or not Filomena placed the other two children, John and Antonette up for adoption. Rumor had it that the Lamorte family that adopted my dad were trying to get the other two children. The 1930 census clearly shows John and Antonette. They are listed as "inmates" (rough title) on the census which is from St. Michaels Home, Richmond, New York, a.k.a St. Michaels home for destitute children (rough name). Thank you for solving this enormous mystery. We know now that Filomena placed them up for adoption. John passed in 1962 in Los Angeles and I need to find out what happended to Antonette. Yes, I got goose bumps when I looked at that census report for the first time. I know how to reach St. Michaels and will do that asap. I have heard that they are very good about providing information. I will let everyone know what I come up with.

The other census reports are much more complex and require more attention and creative thinking. The 1920 census offers new information, but does not show the entire family. I gather as the children got older they may not have filled out these forms with their parents, but, perhaps, filled them out with their new families, husbands, wives and their children. Is that a fair thought? On this manifest, and please correct me if I am mis-reading this, Antoinette is listed as 45 and Anthony as 55. Those ages are way off based upon ancestry.com/trip manifests records which indicate that Antonette was born in 1877 and Anthony in 1878. The ancestry.com 1910 census states Anthony is 32 and Antonette 33. The 1907 ship manifest you posted shows Antonia (Antonette) as being 21 years old. If true, she would be 44 in 1920. Anthony has a much larger age difference as he would be 42 in that same 1920 census, not 55. Do we discount this as just being an ordinary and acceptable inconsistancy? Further, Mary's age is dead on as compared to the ancestry.com 1910 census, Carmine's age is dead on with the same census, Filomena's age is dead on if you go with her being born in 1908, not 1906 (when we do that the 1907 manifest is not matching), Lucy seems married, with a young daughter and her age of 25 is very close, Joe's age is 15 and is right where it should be, Christina is missing and who is Nicholas? Nicholas' age it says 8, so he was born 1912, or so.The strange part is it states he was born in Italy. Unless Anthony and Antonette left the U.S in 1912 , went back to Italy and had him, and then came back to the U.S. that cannot be true. The interesting part here is that they all pretty much list 1906 as the date of immigration to the U.S., not the 1907 we have come to know. Yikes, this opens up another can of worms! Time to search for a 1906 manifest. The 1907 manifest was April 21 and 13 years had gone by. Could they have thought they came here in late 1906 as oppossed to early 1907? With all this said, the manifest for Angel Antonio from March 10, 1904 shows him as 38. This appears to be way off. I think he would have been 26, or so. How do we treat this? I may have missed some items here, so if you see other connections or inconsistancies, please let me know.

The 1930 manifest is the most cunfusing of all. It is very possible that I need to be educated on this one. I see Antonetta, but again age inconsistencies exist. She claims to be sixty. Based on what I believe her birth date to be she should be 53, she is listed as the head of the household and Anthony is nowhere to be found. Joe's age checks out with respect to the 1910 census which lists him as six at that time. He also appears to be an automobile mechanic. Nicholas is listed as 18 (would love to know who he is). Carmine is 27 which matches perfectly to the 1910 census which listed him as 7 (wow, a match) he is married to Rose who is 25 and they appear to have two daughters, Rose M age 3 and Elizabeth whose age was crossed out twice and I cannot figure out the correct age. Most children are missing, but I gather that is because most of the kids were older, married and filled out the census report with their new families. I am troubled that Anthony is not here and Antonetta is listed as the head of the household. Perhaps, they split up at some point before this. On this census form, there is a line for single or married. Antonette did not put a "M" or "S" in the box, but placed other letters I cannot read clearly. Maybe this is telling us something. Can anyone read this clearly? It almost looks like "SD" or "STD" maybe, single divorced.

A funny thing is that these forms and others I have viewed seem to almost always have Testa and Venditti families filling out forms at the same time. In many cases, the Venditti's are not the family I search for as first names are very different. I say this as it becomes clearer that these families were friends. Remember, Angelantonio (if we have the correct person)came here to visit Guiseppe Venditti, his "father in law" So, Antonette was a Venditti. Bernardino, who we find little about, was a Venditti and he married a Testa, being Filomena.

So, when you get time, please help me to understand if my thoughts are correct or if I am mis-reading this information on some or all levels. Also, any thoughts on the questions and concerns I raised?

Thanks so much for all the time you have devoted to trying to help me. From day one your information has been paramount to any success I have had.

John
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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby misbris » 07 Feb 2009, 04:13

Thanks, but I had great help from another member on the census info.

Filomena came to the US in 1907, she was a few months old. (Maybe 2 mos. maybe a little older) This puts her birth year as 1906/7.

In 1910, she is 4. (Birth year 1906)

In 1920, she is 13 (Birth year 1907)

In 1930, I can't find her.

In 1907, her mother Antonetta is 31 (Birth year 1876)

In 1910, she is 34 (Birth year 1877)

In 1920, she is 45 (Birth year 1875)

In 1930, she is 60 and a widow.
I believe this age is an error.
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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby misbris » 07 Feb 2009, 04:20

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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby JohnArmellino » 07 Feb 2009, 04:27

In 1930, she is 60 and a widow. I believe this age is an error.


I've always found that when an age is expressed as a round number (30, 40, 50, 60...), it's accuracy is substantially less than otherwise. It does stand to reason, as it is more likely an estimate.
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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby allitalian1 » 07 Feb 2009, 14:06

So, we can conclude that this is definately, Filomena. Do we agree that the census reports are missing family members as those family members were adults and would have registered with their new families?

It does seem that Filomena did not participate in the 1930 census. I will continue to look for her. Bernardino has been rather elusive and does not appear anywhere. He left for California at some point, but we do not know when. Is it fair to say Nicholas is a new son for Antonette and Anthony? Seems Anthony passed at a rather young age.

The new marital information is great. Thank you. I will start some searches over the weekend. John's thought on age estimates seems fair. It seems that "back in the day" people were not concerned with providing incorrect information, or were not concerned when others did same. People today, would not report that way.

So, where is Bernardino?

I have information coming in the mail soon. California death certifcate on John Venditti, the same document for Filomena, and the information from St. Michaels regarding Antonette and John Venditti. This information should provide some good leads.

John
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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby allitalian1 » 08 Feb 2009, 14:43

Misbris:

The 1930 census is starting to make more sense :D . Lucy married Patsy Primiano and the had two kids, Antoinette and Nicholena???? Can you help with her name?

Carmine married Rose and had two daughters, Rose and Elizabeth. Yes, Antoinette is a widow! There are a few Venditti familes present. I cannot
figure out how they fit in, or if they are supposed to fit in with my family. . Do you have thoughts on this? Lines 8 and 9 show Mary and Patrick, but I see no connection.

Nicholas pops into the picture, but Filomena is nowhere to be found. Bernardino is believed to have left already, so it is likely she is alone. Where is she? :cry:
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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby misbris » 09 Feb 2009, 01:53

Possible death dates for Antonio and Antonetta????

Testa Antoinette 57 y Oct 22 1937 2032 Richmond

Testa Tony 56 y May 31 1928 1054 Richmond
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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby allitalian1 » 09 Feb 2009, 03:16

Misbriss:

Thank you for the forward.
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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby allitalian1 » 09 Feb 2009, 17:02

The manifest we believe to be for Bernardino Venditti from the Prinz Oscar dated 22 February 22, 1904 shows he is traveling with family. I cannot figure who the children are traveling with. Is it Christina Iammatteo age 46? If so, what does the initials Ma mean and do I have the correct the spelling of her last name?

My only concern with this being the correct manifest, is that their destination is upstate N.Y., not New Dorp, or Richmond, Steten Island.

This could get me going on his family as this is the only information I have on him.

John
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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby bonval » 09 Feb 2009, 18:09

Initials Ma "usually" stood for Maria - that at least is what I found over and over with records showing full name later in other records. BTW - also found Gui being short for Guiseppi.
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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby uantiti » 09 Feb 2009, 18:13

allitalian1 wrote:The manifest we believe to be for Bernardino Venditti from the Prinz Oscar dated 22 February 22, 1904 shows he is traveling with family. I cannot figure who the children are traveling with. Is it Christina Iammatteo age 46? If so, what does the initials Ma mean and do I have the correct the spelling of her last name?

My only concern with this being the correct manifest, is that their destination is upstate N.Y., not New Dorp, or Richmond, Steten Island.

This could get me going on his family as this is the only information I have on him.

John


Ma stands for Maria. So the complete name is Maria Cristina Iammatteo, age 46 travelling with her children, reaching her husband Michele Venditti.

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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby allitalian1 » 09 Feb 2009, 18:20

Bonval/Uantiti:

Thnk you for jumping into this thread and being so helpful. Your information clears that issue up.

John
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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby uantiti » 09 Feb 2009, 18:23

bonval wrote:Initials Ma "usually" stood for Maria - that at least is what I found over and over with records showing full name later in other records. BTW - also found Gui being short for Guiseppi.


Actually, Guiseppi doesn't exist in Italy. The correct name is Giuseppe.

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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby bonval » 10 Feb 2009, 02:01

:oops: Sorry about that misspell! You are right - I keep switching from Spanish for work and Italian for home! :roll: Tough living in Florida!
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Re: Origins of the name Testa and Venditti

Postby allitalian1 » 10 Feb 2009, 03:23

Misbris:

I agree with the death dates for Tony and Antoinette. Thanks for that help. He has gone by so many first names. Angelantonio, Anthony and now, Tony. Does this mean anything?

I received the death certificate for John A. Venditti from the Los Angeles County coroner. It was indeed the John I searched for. This is my fathers brother. One down and one to go as far a siblings are concerned. I am working on the manifests for Anthony and Bernardino as I have some doubts that I need to verify.

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