Crimean War vet

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Tamberino
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Crimean War vet

Postby Tamberino » 27 Jan 2009, 00:32

My Grandfather remembered something recently. My Great-great-great-grandfather used to have a rifle that was used by his father in the Crimean War. I was wondering if anyone knows how to validate this. The war was prior to unification and he must have been a mercenary because he was from Vaglio Basilicata. From what I know only the Kingdom of Sardinia was involved not the rest of Italia.

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PeterTimber
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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby PeterTimber » 27 Jan 2009, 00:53

Go to http://ap_history_online.tripod.com/apeh10j.htm for a brief overview of the "italian" participation in the Crimean war. =Peter=
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uantiti
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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby uantiti » 27 Jan 2009, 10:09

Hi,
the kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia sent a battalion of Bersaglieri into the Crimean War following a calculated strategy of Prime Minister Count Camillo Benso who was looking for allies to help him in the Italian unification process (First, second and third Italian Wars of Indipendence). The Bersaglieri Corp was a specialized infantry unit and I don't know if they included mercenaries. Your ancestor might have been a volounteer or he got the rifle as a gift from somebody.
You might be interested to read about the background of the
2nd Italian War of Indipendence


Ada

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sylogician
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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby sylogician » 27 Jan 2009, 18:27

Another good web page to check out is

http://www.biellaclub.it/_cultura/perso ... ndro%20LM/

It talks about the origins of the Bersaglieri corps and its first commander Alessandro Ferrero, who created it and led it to Crimea.

The Eastern Army of Italy (really Sardinia-Piedmonte) I believe was under the command of his brother Alfonso. Alessandro commanded the 2nd Division.

Alessandro died of cholera shortly after arriving in Crimea and command of the unit was assumed by General Giovanni Battista Trotti, who led it at the bloody battle of Chernaya (Leo Tolstoy witnessed this battle from the Russian side).

The military records of the Army should exist. Probably in Turin. Only around 15,000 Italians participated in the Crimean War almost all within the 5 battalions of Bersaglieri that made up the Eastern army. Though most were from Piedmonte-Sardinia, it would not be unusual to find Southern Italians among their numbers, particularly as noted since this body previously had seen action against the occupational forces of Austria in Italy.

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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby sylogician » 28 Jan 2009, 21:30

The Piemontese Carabinieri also apparently participated in the Crimean War.

http://www.carabinieri.it/Internet/Arma ... C/85+C.htm

Also at least one Sardinian Frigate and several transports operated in the Bosphorous in joint allied operations with the British Navy. The fleet steamed around the Italian penninsula and may have stopped in Southern ports along the way.

According to this article the "Corpo di Spedizione Sardo in Oriente" the Sardinian army was made up of 18,058 men (1,038 officers and 17,020 soldiers).

The Crimean War service medals issued by the Ottoman Empire to British, French and Sardinian combatants were all the same, differentiated only by the language on the back (English, French, Italian). I believe the British medals were all "named" (the recipients name was engraved on the edge). I do not know if the French and Sardinians did the same. Also many French and Italian participants recieved the British Crimea Medal (all named when issued) particularly with the Balaklava clasp. Though a long shot, if your ancestor participated his medal might still exist out there, unless he was buried with it.

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Tamberino
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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby Tamberino » 30 Jan 2009, 16:45

So, I would need to write the archives in Turin to see if a Tamburrino fought in the Crimean War?

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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby PeterTimber » 30 Jan 2009, 17:58

You also may wish to send a copy of your letterin Italian to Esercito D'Italia, L'archivo Storico, Via XX Settembre, Roma, Italy in case records have since been transferred there. =Peter=
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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby PeterTimber » 31 Jan 2009, 05:01

You might wish to send a duplicate copy of your request to Esercito D'Italia, L'Archivo Storico, Via XX Settembre, Roma, Italy. The records may be found in this army archive as well. =Peter=
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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby Tamberino » 16 Feb 2009, 18:13

Does this make sense? I am trying to figure out how to word this.

Per favore, mi potrebbe spedire i registro dei fogli martricolari o foglio di ruolo di Fillipo Tamburrino in Crimea.

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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby PeterTimber » 16 Feb 2009, 23:06

Why don't you go to the www.angelfire.com/ok3/pearlsofwisdom/saviello2.html for Italian conscription records which you can adopt to request the record with the most information including campaigns, transfers,medals, wounds etc along with everything else and that is the discharge records FOGLIO DI CONGEDO ILLIMITATO. =Peter=
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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby Tamberino » 18 Feb 2009, 12:48

Does this make sense? I am trying to figure out how to word this.

Per favore, mi potrebbe spedire i registro dei fogli martricolari o foglio di ruolo di Fillipo Tamburrino in Crimea.

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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby PeterTimber » 18 Feb 2009, 14:35

If you insist on requesting documents with less information then here is your translation: Per favore mi potrebbe spedire il registro dei foglie matricolori o registro di ruolo di Filippo Tamburrini in Crimea. =Peter=
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sylogician
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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby sylogician » 19 Feb 2009, 01:05

And for more information than most people will ever want on Italian forces in Crimea check out:

For Sardinian Uniforms, Weapons and Errata:

http://marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info ... fUnif.html

and

For Sardinian battle order, unit command structure and organization:

http://marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info ... ia1854.htm

and

For a pretty good overview in a handy downloadable pdf file:

http://www.tricolore-italia.com/pdf/spe ... Crimea.pdf

BTW if your ancestor served in Crimea with Italian forces the odds are he carried one of these two rifles:

The most common was the 1844 La Marmora carbine musket. It came in two versions: long and short. Its technical name was Fucile da fanteria mod. 1844. It had a 17.5mm bore and was 1.18 meters (long) or .975 meters (short).

The Bersaglieri had just adopted an 1848 model which also saw service in Crimea.

Good luck finding your ancestor. I think Peter's suggestion of adapting the form letter and sending to both Turin and Rome for information is the best bet. At the least, they should be able to guide you where to look further.

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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby PeterTimber » 19 Feb 2009, 01:40

I concur since the Historical Military library at Via XX Settembre, Rome has two additonal annexes at Via Etruria and Via Lepanto in Rome. Please keep us posted. =Peter=
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Re: Crimean War vet

Postby Tamberino » 21 Mar 2009, 02:43

I got a reply :

1.In esito a quanto chiesto con la lettera in riferimento, si comunica che presso l’Archivio dell’Ufficio Storico dello Stato Maggiore dell’Esercito non è custodita alcuna documentazione a carattere personale di militari di qualsiasi categoria che hanno prestato servizio nella Forza Armata, in quanto custodita, per gli Ufficiali, presso la Direzione Generale per il Personale Militare del Ministero della Difesa (V Reparto – 16ª Divisione – V Sezione – Viale dell’Esercito, 186 – 00143 Roma) o il Centro Documentale di appartenenza (fa fede generalmente il luogo di nascita ovvero quello di residenza all’atto dell’arruolamento) ed in alternativa, trascorsi 70 anni dalla data di nascita, l’Archivio di Stato competente per territorio per il restante personale.

Gli indirizzi dei Centri Documentali Esercito (ex Distretti Militari) sono disponibili sul sito www.esercito.difesa.it sottomenu “I Centri Documentaliâ€


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