General question on people with the exact name

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borderline
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General question on people with the exact name

Postby borderline » 18 Mar 2009, 06:07

In searching for my ancestors in Milazzo, Italy, I am wondering how you can differentiate people who have the same name.

For example, I know that Antonino Amato and Giovanna Oliva had three sons between 1885 and 1892. Based on the father's age on the birth certificate, I can see that he must have been born around 1851. I could narrow the father's birthdate down further by his age on each birth certificate, but I am finding that in many cases the father's age must have been estimated. In any case, if the ages are accurate, then all three point to Antonino, the father, being born between Feb. 18, 1851, and June 4, 1851.

Now, if this is all the info I have, and I look up the birth certificates for this village in 1851, what if I find two Antonino Amatos? How could I determine which one eventually married Giovanna Oliva and had those sons?

Maybe I am overlooking something obvious. Thanks.

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Re: General question on people with the exact name

Postby liviomoreno » 18 Mar 2009, 06:12

borderline wrote:
Now, if this is all the info I have, and I look up the birth certificates for this village in 1851, what if I find two Antonino Amatos? How could I determine which one eventually married Giovanna Oliva and had those sons?



Usually the birth acts have an annotation with the marriage information.

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BarbV_in_VT
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Re: General question on people with the exact name

Postby BarbV_in_VT » 18 Mar 2009, 16:07

Hi,
Best way is to "rent" the microfilms and view at an LDS (Mormon) Family History Center - I drove the 40 miles each way weekly to the only one in VT but was able to trace family in Messina a long way back. This page shows 15 microfilms (of the actual records - not always easy to read but exciting when you find your family in them) for Milazzo civil registrations.
You can find the marriage first if you prefer and it (and/or "pubblicazioni") will give the names of both bride and groom parents or -as Livio says the birth record sometimes have an annotation. You can also consider the name of Antonio and Giovanna's first daughter - that is likely his mother's name.

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library ... Milazzo+++

Title Registri dello stato civile, Milazzo (Messina), 1820-1910
Authors Milazzo (Messina). Ufficio dello stato civile (Main Author)

Nati, morti 1851 Nati, matrimoni, morti 1852-1854 Nati, morti 1855 FHL INTL Film 1467839
Nati 1897-1900, 1904-1908 Pubblicazioni 1870-1886 FHL INTL Film 1742541
Pubblicazioni 1887-1891, 1893-1907, 1910 Matrimoni 1869-1887 FHL INTL Film 1742542
Matrimoni 1888-1910 Morti 1869-1882 FHL INTL Film 1742543

Barb in Vermont USA

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Searching for information on

VOLTURO, FUCO or MARINO from Oliveto Citra, Salerno Province, CP

ONOFRIO, GAGLIARDI or GAETANO from Puglianello, Benevento Province, CP

GAGLIARDI from Cerreto Sannita, Benevento Province, CP

PARISI or RAGNO from Messina, Messina Province, SI

ALU, MANISCALCO PAPA, VELLA or GRIGANTI from Marianopoli,
Caltanissetta Province, SI

PIAZZA from Vallelunga Pratameno, Caltanissetta Province, SI


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Even memory is not necessary for love. There is a
land of the living and a land of the dead and the bridge
is love, the only survival, the only meaning.

Thornton Wilder, "The Bridge of San Luis Rey"

**********************************************************

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Italysearcher
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Re: General question on people with the exact name

Postby Italysearcher » 18 Mar 2009, 17:32

The marriage record will give you his father's name. Administratively this method of identifying people of the same name worked.
You have to work the marriage records BEFORE looking for the father's birth certificate. For more information on how to search the microfilms see my website.
Ann Tatangelo
http://angelresearch.wordpress.com
ANNOYING THE SAINTS - Stories of my Life in Italy. http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... ly/7731505

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borderline
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Re: General question on people with the exact name

Postby borderline » 19 Mar 2009, 01:26

That makes sense. I figured out how to decipher the birth records, but haven't yet figured out the marriage records. In some cases, on the 1882-1895 film, I think it is mostly/exclusively births, but a few have a marriage or death hand written in the margin. Maybe there is a separate film for marriage in those years. Yes, in fact I just looked, and it shows that film as being births only, and the 1742542 film has "Pubblicazioni (what is this?) and Matrimoni 1869-1887.

The film I'm looking at now, 1467839, is titled:

Nati, morti 1851
Nati, matrimoni, morti 1852-1854
Nati, morti 1855

This would suggest that the marriages from 1851 and 1855 are not on there? Or that the label of this film is inaccurate.

The reason I was looking at birth certificates before marriage records is that I knew the approximate year of birth of the relatives based on their age on the birth certificates of their children. But how can you find the date of the marriage if the marriages are listed separately from the birth records?

Thanks again.

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BarbV_in_VT
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Re: General question on people with the exact name

Postby BarbV_in_VT » 19 Mar 2009, 02:07

You find it by going through as many films as it takes. ;-) What I did - since you allready have a film from about the time the family lived there - go through and extract all with your surname . You are right that film only includes marriages from 1852-1854 but some with your surname may very well be siblings of the couple you eventually find - many will be relatives. You will be glad later that you found them - while you wait for the film to arrive.

I googled to find a good explanation of pubblicazioni - and found it in a posting in the "language" section of this very site. ;-) Cathynap wrote

The pubblicazioni (publication) is a marriage bann. A couple intending to marry would go into the stato offices to register their intent to marry (this document replaced the act of solemn promise used before the unification). For 3 consecutive weeks the pubblicazioni had to be posted in public view in case anyone had cause to object to the impending nuptuals. When registering their pubblicazioni they were required to bring in certain documents (such as their birth acts) and their parents.
For a basic translation and more information go HERE
http://www.montaltouffugo.net/records/p ... zione.html

Check the language forum for examples and more info.

If Antonio and Giovanna had sons after 1855 - then this film will probably contain their marriage
Nati 1897-1900, 1904-1908 Pubblicazioni 1870-1886 FHL INTL Film 1742541

Barb V in Vermont, USA


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Searching for information on

VOLTURO, FUCO or MARINO from Oliveto Citra,
Salerno Province, CP

ONOFRIO, GAGLIARDI or GAETANO
from Puglianello, Benevento Province, CP

GAGLIARDI from Cerreto Sannita, Benevento Province, CP

PARISI or RAGNO from Messina, Messina Province, SI

ALU, MANISCALCO PAPA, VELLA or GRIGANTI from Marianopoli,
Caltanissetta Province, SI

PIAZZA from Vallelunga Pratameno, Caltanissetta Province, SI


************************************************************


*********************************************************

Even memory is not necessary for love. There is a
land of the living and a land of the dead and the bridge
is love, the only survival, the only meaning.

Thornton Wilder, "The Bridge of San Luis Rey"

**********************************************************


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