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Postby suanj » 28 Dec 2003, 20:30

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Postby ptimber » 29 Dec 2003, 07:07

Should you require additional ifnormation about the immigrant ship San Giorgio I had described previously please let me know as there is a website with a repetition of what I advised about the San Giorgio which apparently never sank but might have run aground and was refloated. Peter
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Postby suanj » 29 Dec 2003, 07:16

Hi Peter, in this link http://www.immigrantships.net/newsartic ... d1900.html and correlated link are many info, it does not cite San Giorgio, I do not have the time to read all...Regards, suanj
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Postby ptimber » 29 Dec 2003, 17:45

Raffaella go to www,fortunecity.com/little italy/amalfi/13/shipqs.htm#5 for the San Giorgio. Peter
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Postby jac » 30 Dec 2003, 07:29

Peter,

The first time my grandfather came to the US from Italy was on a cattle

Boat!

John
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Postby suanj » 30 Dec 2003, 07:44

Si Peter, io ho solo trasmesso quello che avevo trovato sui siti italiani e poi altrove, non ho detto che sia quella o un'altra la nave..leggendo quegli articoli forse qualcosa poteva venire alla memoria di chi ha inserito la domanda qui..forse non mi sono espressa bene in inglese, saluti, Raffaella
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Postby ptimber » 30 Dec 2003, 16:45

Dear John did he come as a stowaway or a crewman. on the cattle boat. Despite what you sy, very few came that way and most came on regular transatlantic ships of Italian, Gedrman and english flag vessels in not very comfortable circumstances but not with cattle. Peter
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Postby jac » 31 Dec 2003, 05:36

Peter,

I agree with you, the majority did come on transport ships but I'm sure you are familiar with the term WOP meaning of course (with out papers).

I'm not sure if he was a cattle hand or a stowaway. Had he been a crew member he would not have stayed as long as he did as an illegal alien.

I beleive it was on the level how ever he did it.

Also, Peter, maybe you would know what the biggest reason for being quarantined on a ship was. My grandmother was and I'm just kinda curious.

Thanks

John
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Postby ptimber » 31 Dec 2003, 05:55

Let me dispel another myth.. the pejorative term WOP is derived from the word GUAPPO which means handsome and virile. This was the name applied to a group of italian nobleman(?) who came to the USA to assist Jefferson in the revolution and one of them helped write the constitution. His name escapes me for the moment. This group were came on strong with the colonial woman and the term degenerated, Understandably, to wops signifying a dashing lothario.

I am sure people color their accounts and probably was a reaction to uncomfortable accoimodations and lousy tasting food. Ship journeys in those days took about 3 weeks at best from Italy to the US and a month to South America. I w]probably would call a ship full of smelly people a cattle boat myself!!! I used that term liberally when I went to work on the NY subways in the AM and PM. Peter
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Postby jac » 31 Dec 2003, 06:31

Peter,

Allow me to refresh your memory!

Perhaps it was Benito Franklin?

John
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Postby suanj » 31 Dec 2003, 06:44

I know, having read a lot on the Italian emigration towards the USA, that beyond the ships, some were embarked on cargo ship. The cargo ship carried merchandises and approximately 20/30 passengers who sat down between merchandises. Moreover Guappo, tipically Neapolitan's area dialectal term, were synonymous of "pertaining to guapparia ".. The Neapolitan guappi, they were particular persons, equips of force and intelligence, they dressed well, they tried the supremacy in society, did not love to work, therefore they lived to legality margins. Guappo does not mean necessarily "virile". This neapolitan song well describes the Guappo's stereotype (for who knows some words of neapolitan dialect.. )
http://www.sorrentoradio.com/prova/test ... doc197.htm
Happy new Year!!!!suanj
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Postby ptimber » 31 Dec 2003, 15:32

Dear John your humor is only exceeded by your other, many other, virtues which I can mention but rather not. I believe the unknown gentlemen in question helped in the drafting of some historic document either the declaration of independence, or the bill of rights in collaboration with Jefferson (?) I believe. The name for Bednjamin is not Benito but Beniamino. Peter
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Postby ptimber » 31 Dec 2003, 16:05

Dear Suanj I was speaking asbout the majority of immigrants and I am sure, as you say, they sat between the merchandises until they arrived. Some came as crewman and some came as bonafide passengers. I marvel at the thought that in this day and age whether I could bring myself to leave my town and country and venture forth into a foreign place where I did not understand ther language, penniless and burdened with the responsibilitesof wife and children and put myself into a culture that reviled my background...while performing menial and manual work. When you think of it that way then you can appreciate the immigrant experience. Peter
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Postby suanj » 31 Dec 2003, 21:07

Dear Peter: I report what I have read. I do not say of my invention, but I have read and learned this. Moreover nearly all Italian emigrating were persons deprived of hope and without job, but brave persons. It does not have to be astonished if someone dared adventure in alien country. However, on cargo sometimes emigrating were embarked also, and this is not a thought been born from my fantasy. Happy new Year: peace and Love...suanj


PS:hai ricevuto la mia email?
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Postby ptimber » 01 Jan 2004, 01:55

Suanj I agree with you ..all I said was that they were few in numbers and not sifgnificant in the grand scheme of italian migration to the USA. Happy New Year and see my message to you. Peter
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