Gentile to Palumbo

Are you looking for an Italian surname? Do you need more information about your family heritage?
This is the right place to start your genealogy search.
User avatar
matttk
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Aug 2009, 12:54

Gentile to Palumbo

Postby matttk » 12 Aug 2009, 13:12

Hi,

I have been working to track down my Italian lineage but the trail goes cold with only a few names in Italy but I have been unable to find more.

My second great grandfather came to New York in approximately 1891 (according to census records). His name was Antonio Palumbo, according to census and registration records HOWEVER it is common family knowledge that this was not the correct name. In fact, his real name was Antonio Palumbo. This name often appears as middle names in descendants and was the actual last name of my grandmother on her birth certificate (at the insistance of a relative), although she always went by Palumbo.

The reason given for this is some kind of mafia connection, apparently fleeing the mafia or maybe part of the mafia - nobody knows for certain (or they won't say). It is known there were some mafia threats later when the family was living in Chicago, so this seems like a credible story.

Anyway, I can find no boat records - maybe there are some or maybe there aren't. But I am having trouble going back further. According to his death record, his parents were named Salvatore (Gentile, presumably) and Christina (Caruso). No information is given on them, other than that they were born in Italy (supposedly, they were from Sicily).

Antonio's birthdate was 14 March, 1867 (though the date is inconsistent on census documents). His wife, Mary (or Marie or Maria - all appear) was born 15 April, 1872 in Sicily (according to death record). It was said her last name was "Special" (indeed, this appears on the death record) but other legal documents show Speciali, Specialian, and possibly other variations. It sounds like Special was all some people could spell. Her parents were Joseph (Special, etc.) and Agostina (Ardizoni , I believe - difficult handwriting). It appears she came separately to America in 1892, with their son, Samuel, who was born in 1891.

They moved to Ohio (between censuses - arg) and then to Chicago by 1897 at the latest (they had a child in Chicago) and eventually to Canada in the 20s and 30s. I can find tons of information on them in the US (not Ohio and little of NY) and Canada but I've got absolutely nothing about Italy, other than what I have described.

Is it possible to go further back from here with this information (I have more not listed on descendants)? No living relatives have any Italian speaking or writing ability. I have searched ancestry.com and familysearch.org (though I could have missed something).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

User avatar
pink67
Master
Master
Posts: 4459
Joined: 25 Oct 2005, 00:00
Location: italia - liguria

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby pink67 » 13 Aug 2009, 16:25

Matttk,

from the 1892 arrival manifest for Maria Speciale (who was travelling with her little son Salvatore- age 5 months) it seems their last residence in Italy was Termini (possible Termini Imerese - Palermo Province - Sicily region):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Termini_Imerese

Maria's last name is mispelled on EllisIsland.org....

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0734

Laura :)

User avatar
pink67
Master
Master
Posts: 4459
Joined: 25 Oct 2005, 00:00
Location: italia - liguria

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby pink67 » 13 Aug 2009, 16:31

Don't know if you already have this birth certificate for Giuseppe Palumbo, born on July 4, 1897 in Chicago:
from the (free) site http://search.labs.familysearch.org/rec ... tml#p=home

image:
[img=http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5637/4262855944.th.jpg]

Giuseppe was born on July 4, 1897
name of mother Maria Speciali
name of father Antonino Palumbo

User avatar
pink67
Master
Master
Posts: 4459
Joined: 25 Oct 2005, 00:00
Location: italia - liguria

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby pink67 » 13 Aug 2009, 16:42

Maybe they (Antonio and Maria) travelled together.... :D

I found an Antonino Palumbo that was on the same boat (Birmania) ... they were lsited separately because the last names are in alphabetical order:

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0534

Antonino (age 22) was travelling with Rosario Palumbo (age 52), stated Termini as last residence in Italy and Chicago as destination in the U.S.

User avatar
matttk
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Aug 2009, 12:54

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby matttk » 13 Aug 2009, 17:19

Wow!!! This is all VERY interesting!! I do, indeed, have Giuseppe's (Joseph) birth certificate - he is my great grandfather. ;)

I had searched Ellis Island before but I guess I am not experienced enough. The age for Antonino is wrong by a few years but I've seen that one change on different documents. The age for Maria is perfect and Salvatore/Sam is only 1 month off (September 29 to April 27 is 6 months) but that seems like an easy mistake. The only weird thing is they are listed as sitting in different sections (2 and 3) but I don't know what those mean.

Is Antonino listed as a "country man"? Never heard of that "occupation" before.

The only other discrepancy would be that the census says they came in 1891 but those things also have so many small errors from what I've seen.

Now the question is - where do I go from here? Try to establish a link in Termini I guess? But I can find little in the way of records from Italy. Still, it gives me a placename to search.

Now I wonder who Rosario Palumbo could be.

Thanks, Laura, for the information! I will keep searching.

User avatar
pink67
Master
Master
Posts: 4459
Joined: 25 Oct 2005, 00:00
Location: italia - liguria

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby pink67 » 13 Aug 2009, 18:49

You're very welcome :D

And yes, I would concentrate my research on Termini Imerese....
You're also pretty luck because the Mormons microfilmed the civil registrations for Termini Imerese, so you'll be able to search by yourself in their microfilms and found many records for your family...
I would begin with Salvatore Palumbo's birth act because you know his birth date also from his military enlistment for the first world war:

World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
about Sam Palumbo
Name: Sam Palumbo
City: Chicago
County: Cook
State: Illinois
Birthplace: Italy
Birth Date: 29 Sep 1891
Race: Caucasian (White)
FHL Roll Number: 1439709
DraftBoard: 9

On his birth act you'll find the exact names and ages of his parents...

here is the link to find your nearest Family History Center:

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library ... et_fhc.asp

and here is the link to find the towns they microfilmed:

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library ... umns=*,0,0

I also want to point you to this site:

http://www.termini-imerese.org/DBSearch.html

about wrong ages, birth dates and year of immigration, well, discrepancies are very common ...
On the 1900 census manfiest Antonino stated he did immigrate on 1891 while his wife Mary and son Sam on 1893... :?
I can't be 100% sure about Antonino 1892 arrival manifest but I'm sure about 1892 Maria and Salvatore's arrival on 1892... :wink:

Laura

User avatar
matttk
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Aug 2009, 12:54

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby matttk » 13 Aug 2009, 20:23

Thanks again! Yeah, I have seen that date on the war record.

I have read about the Mormon centres but I haven't been to one yet. So the microfilms could be there and then it is free to use them, yes? But if they are not, one must pay to have a copy sent?

I have been told that much more could exist on their microfilm collections, so I really should make the trip. Hopefully they have a good collection here in Bonn. ;)

Thanks for the list - the search continues!

Edit: Do you have a copy of the 1900 census with Antonio/Tony? I know I have seen it but it's not in my files. Thanks.

User avatar
pink67
Master
Master
Posts: 4459
Joined: 25 Oct 2005, 00:00
Location: italia - liguria

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby pink67 » 13 Aug 2009, 20:25

matttk wrote:and eventually to Canada in the 20s and 30s.


what about this arrival manifest?

Border Crossings: From Canada to U.S., 1895-1956
about Antonio Palumbo
Name: Antonio Palumbo
Arrival Date: 28 Oct 1925
Age: 65
Birth Date: abt 1860
Birthplace: Tenmani Naressi
Birth Country: Italy
Gender: Male
Race/Nationality: Italian (South) (Italian)

Port of Arrival: Buffalo, USA
Departure Contact: Wife Maria
Arrival Contact: Brother-in-law Frank
Record has photo?: No

This man was joining his brother in law Frank in Columbus - Ohio . He stated he was a fruit dealer, he was leaving in Canada his wife Mary and was born in Temmeni Viaressi (sure a mispelling of Termini Imerese)

[img=http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/4035/palumbocanada.th.jpg]

Laura :D

p.s. are you in Bonn, Germany??

User avatar
pink67
Master
Master
Posts: 4459
Joined: 25 Oct 2005, 00:00
Location: italia - liguria

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby pink67 » 13 Aug 2009, 20:33

Here you go!

1900 United States Federal Census
about Antonio Parum
Name: Antonio Parum
[Antonino Parnon]
Home in 1900: Chicago Ward 5, Cook, Illinois
Age: 35
Birth Date: Jun 1864
Birthplace: Italy
Race: White
Ethnicity: American
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1891
Relationship to Head of House: Head
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Spouse's Name: Maria
Marriage year: 1890
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 10
Residence : Chicago City, Cook, Illinois
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Antonio Parum 35 head, born in IT, year of immigr. 1891, married since 10 years, Naturalized
Maria Parum 27 wife, born in IT, year of immigr. 1893
Salvatore Parum 8 son, born in IT, year of immigr. 1893
Guiseppino Parum 7 daughter, born in Columbus- OH
Agostina Parum 4 daughter, born in OH
Guiseppo Parum 2 son, born in ILL
Ignacio Parum 1 son, born in ILL

address was 2038 Archer Avenue.


[img=http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2756/palumbo1900.th.jpg]

User avatar
matttk
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Aug 2009, 12:54

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby matttk » 14 Aug 2009, 10:09

Thanks again for all the info!! This census is definitely the missing one - the details fit almost perfectly. The 1893 thing is odd but I think that's just got to be an error. I always wondered why the child born after Ignacio was listed as #7, since I hadn't previously discovered Agostina or Ignacio. Now the numbers add up!

I had not seen that border crossing record either but that's definitely him. They were all fruit dealers and the other details match too. I hadn't heard of this brother-in-law, Frank. That is interesting. Maybe a question to ask some older relatives.

I am really excited to see this mystery unraveling!

Oh, and, yes, I am in Bonn, Germany. :)

User avatar
pink67
Master
Master
Posts: 4459
Joined: 25 Oct 2005, 00:00
Location: italia - liguria

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby pink67 » 14 Aug 2009, 10:54

so, just for reference:

from Ancestry.com:

1910 United States Federal Census
about Tony Palumbo
Name: Tony Palumbo
Age in 1910: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Spouse's Name: Mary
Home in 1910: Chicago Ward 4, Cook, Illinois
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Gender: Male
Year of Immigration: 1891
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Tony Palumbo 45 head born in IT
Mary Palumbo 37 wife, born in IT
Sam Palumbo 18 son, born in IT
Josie Palumbo 47 daughter (Giuseppa) born in OH
Joe Palumbo 13 son, (Joseph) born in ILL
Mattie Palumbo 11 daughter, born in IL
Magle Palumbo 7 daughter, born in IL
Tony Palumbo 5 son, born in IL
Phillip Palumbo 3 son, born in IL
Florence Palumbo 1 daughter, born in IL

Maybe the daughter Agostina (born in OH on june 1895) died between 1900 and 1910, and maybe the son Ignazio on the 1900 census (born on 1899) was a female because in the 1910 census is listed as Mattie - Daughter

Laura :D

matttk wrote:Oh, and, yes, I am in Bonn, Germany


:lol: it's fun!! I'm italian, in Italy, trying to help you with your italo-american-canadian family... and you're in Europe "just" 614 miles far from me... :lol: !

User avatar
matttk
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Aug 2009, 12:54

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby matttk » 14 Aug 2009, 12:55

Yep, I have got that one. Yeah, there is later a birth record that says one more child is living than has been born, so that makes sense. How does Ignazio change to Mattie? I was wondering maybe if Mattie was born sometime in 1900, after the census - but I guess she couldn't be 11 then. Hmm. Too bad I can't find birth records for either (I have found them for most of the Chicago children).

Haha - yeah, that is cool. ;) It is amazing how far and wide or sometimes close Genealogy takes you.

User avatar
matttk
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Aug 2009, 12:54

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby matttk » 21 Aug 2009, 16:57

I've recently found a whole ton of Gentile Palumbos in Chicago and Ohio, 2 of which I've been able to link as siblings to Antonino. I'm wondering if many from the same family went over and did the Gentile to Palumbo thing or if maybe their name actually was Gentile Palumbo in Italy and that not all of them are related. Is Gentile Palumbo a name combination anybody has heard before? Like I said above, I always heard their name WAS Gentile but they changed it to Palumbo. Now I see that there are several (potential siblings - similar ages and all from Termini) with the name Gentile Palumbo.

I can't seem to find too much on anyone but Antonino, though.. just some scattered birth certificates and marriage records. Sadly, the Bonn Mormon history centre is horrifically unreliable (they have been closed both times I went and I met one guy there who said they often close early - yet the second time, I was there only an hour after it opened). I guess I will try Cologne next week.

User avatar
Rebeca.Franze
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: 02 May 2010, 22:18

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby Rebeca.Franze » 31 Aug 2010, 07:38

Just wondering if there is a connection here,
My great great grandmother was Guiseppa (Josephine/Josie) Palumbo. I do not know any of her parents names.Ive been told she was born in Ohio and that she had around 10 siblings. She married my great great grandfather Santo Franze and they lived in Chicago (cook county I think). Santo and Josie's families where both from Termini. Im not sure if she lived in Chicago before she was married (around 1910).
They moved to Canada (Toronto) around 1916. Ive been told this was due to mob threats. I know some of her family also came to Canada and that my great great grandfather played matchmaker for some of Josie's sisters and found them husbands. Also, I think she was born in 1892.

User avatar
pink67
Master
Master
Posts: 4459
Joined: 25 Oct 2005, 00:00
Location: italia - liguria

Re: Gentile to Palumbo

Postby pink67 » 31 Aug 2010, 08:26

Hi Rebeca.Franze and welcome to the forum :D

Just for references, here some records pertaining your ancestors:

from:
https://fsbeta.familysearch.org/

Illinois, Cook County Marriages, 1871-1920
Groom name Santo Franze
Groom age in years 25
Groom estimated birth year 1885
Groom birth date 1885
Bride name Guiseppa Palombo
Bride age in years 18
Bride estimated birth year 1892
Bride birth date 1892
Marriage date 03 Apr 1910
Marriage place Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Film number 1030475
Digital GS number 4271197
Image number 301
Reference number 530098

image:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pqcz76r

Illinois, Cook County Birth Certificates, 1878-1922 for Cosimo Franze
Name Cosimo Franze
Birth date 24 Apr 1911
Gender Male
Race or color (expanded) White
Father name Santo Franze
Age of father 26
Mother name Jessie Palumbo
Mother age 18
Film number 1288210
Digital GS number 4298170
Image number 00065
Reference number 4864

image:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqczG1r

They moved to Canada (Toronto) around 1916


On March 1916 they were already living in Canada...
This is a 1916 arrival manifest for Santo:

from Ancestry.com:

Border Crossings: From Canada to U.S., 1895-1956
about Santo Franzi
Name: Santo Franzi
Arrival Date: 24 Mar 1916
Age: 32
Birth Date: abt 1884
Birth Country: Italy
Gender: Male

Port of Arrival: Port Huron, Michigan, USA

page 1:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqcBJJS
page 2:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqcBTIr

Santo (married, age 32, occupation fruit dealer) stated he was leaving in Toronto his wife Giuseppina and was joining his uncle Gastone Naso? in Chicago. He stated also he lived in Chicago from 1901 until april 1910

Laura


Return to “Italian Genealogy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 11 guests