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sal4
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Help

Postby sal4 » 10 Sep 2009, 02:25

My Grandfather's naturalization papers & certificate state that he arrived in New York on Aug 5, 1902 on the ship SS Maddonna....I have been searching all records (Ellis Island, Ancestry.com, LDS etc) & I can not find his name on any ship manifest for the SS Maddonna.....or any ship for that matter....The first time the SS Maddonna arrived in New York was in 1905........I also have a paper that reads he arrived Aug 5, 1902 on the SS Maddonna, but it also reads The steamship line was Italo Sabauto and he travel second class........Can anyone help me find exactly how he arrived in New York? His name is Raffaele Iasalvatore (Salvatore)........(I have documents of him already living in New York in 1905, as marriage cert etc.and my Grandmother arrived in 1904 to be with him, she would of never arrived before him) Thanks.......Sal4
Looking for surnames Iasalvatore (Salvatore), Tartaglia, Rosetta, Consola, Di Muccio, Castellano, Montanaro, Dipaolo, Costa, Sansone, Giudicianni and Laudato.

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Re: Help

Postby scandinavianancestry » 10 Sep 2009, 22:43

Hi Sal4,

I'm not sure if you should care so much about what ship he came in with. Whatever he said in his papers, it might not have been completely true. Was he married when he came in? If you give us some more, like when did his wife arrive, what was her name? It should state his name and address if they were married. Did he have siblings/family coming in also? Where did they go, and what were their names? I found one Iasalvatore coming in later in 1902 but I can't say if it's him until you give us some more info.

Ciao for now,
Susanna

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Re: Help

Postby sal4 » 10 Sep 2009, 23:02

Hi Suzanna...........As I stated in my request for help, my Grandmother arrived after him in 1905..........They were not married until 1905........The Iasalvatore you found is his brother Francesco........I have address etc, paperwork etc of everything of after he arrived, other than the ship he came to American, and yes it is important to me what ship he came arrived on, after all it is all history to my Grandfather........Thanks for your help!........Sal4
Looking for surnames Iasalvatore (Salvatore), Tartaglia, Rosetta, Consola, Di Muccio, Castellano, Montanaro, Dipaolo, Costa, Sansone, Giudicianni and Laudato.

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sal4
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Re: Help

Postby sal4 » 10 Sep 2009, 23:10

Sorry Susanna...My Grandmother arrived in 1904 not 1905 and they were not married until 1905..............I have so much info on him other than the ship name and family in Italy to research, this has become a quest to find out exactly how he entered America.......I may never find out, but at least I'm giving it a good try......Thanks again..........Sal4
Looking for surnames Iasalvatore (Salvatore), Tartaglia, Rosetta, Consola, Di Muccio, Castellano, Montanaro, Dipaolo, Costa, Sansone, Giudicianni and Laudato.

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Re: Help

Postby elba » 11 Sep 2009, 01:32

Are these by any chance your Iasalvatore's?

Raffaele Iasalvatore Born: April 1865

Anton(i)etta Iasalvatore Born: August 1874

Did they have three children - Immacolatina, Eodoro and Umberto?
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Re: Help

Postby PeterTimber » 11 Sep 2009, 01:57

Dear Sal what is the "paper"that shows he arrived on the SS Madonna in 1902-3 or even 1904. The owner of the Madonna was the Farber line (English built and flagged) who had it built in 1905. The only evidence we have is your "paper?" =Peter=
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Re: Help

Postby wldspirit » 11 Sep 2009, 04:27

Hi Sal...are the names found by Elba correct? Could you provide us with your grandfather's birth year?
thanks,
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pink67
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Re: Help

Postby pink67 » 11 Sep 2009, 06:17

Hi Sal!

previous post with more dates:

http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/Foru ... atore.html

I searched Raffaele's arrival manifest with no luck :?

Laura

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Re: Help

Postby elba » 11 Sep 2009, 08:44

Sal - clearly they are not the family I found as they were in Rhode Island... -But that's what happens when you open more than one thread on the same search - information is missed and time is wasted.

I had not followed the other thread and so spent a long time searching with just the information on this thread. But I agree with other researchers here when they ask for more information about the documents that you do have. Without seeing/knowing your source it is like looking for a needle in a haystack. I found the same results for the SS Madonna as Peter did. It wasn't built until 1905 so that leaves three possibilities doesn't it?

1. Memories have faded over the years about the name of the ship.
2. He came over earlier - though I found no trace of his arrival ANYWHERE!
3. You spell the ships name as Maddonna - so maybe it's a different ship and wasn't a passenger ship but an ordinary merchant vessel...)

Sorry
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Re: Help

Postby scandinavianancestry » 11 Sep 2009, 14:57

Hi!
I had not seen the other thread either, and that would have helped a lot. And saved us all some time. Clearly he did not come in with SS Madonna since she wasn't built. Though it could have been a merchant vessel of some sort. His wife to be came in to port with Citta di Napoli on December 2 in 1904 it seems and she's admitted on Feb 12, 1905 at 1.55 pm. So her date of entrance is kind of correct. And they married a few days later in NY. I have searched all manifests possible for Raffaele but no luck, and I saw his brother coming in. Could he have used a different name? Could he have been on any of the ship manisfests that I found for 1902 that are badly damaged? That is a possibility too. If you look up Citta di Torino that came in March 1902, there is a Raffaele with no last name. I don't think it's him but I'm saying there is a possibility that his manisfest is destroyed or so damaged that it'll be hard to find it.
Have you gone through all the manifests coming in from Italy in 1902 or 1901? If she was detained for that long time, he could have been too. So he could have arrived to NY in 1901 and released a month or so later. We have too look into all those possibilites I think. And of course I see the importance for you and your records in finding his entrance, believe me. I research emigrants from Scandinavia every day and a photo of the ship and a copy of the manifest is what distant relatives wants to see.

Susanna

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Re: Help

Postby PeterTimber » 11 Sep 2009, 15:14

Hi Susanna in early turn of the century period ships names were changed frequently as they were built, sold, transferred from one company to another or under another flag so that his ship may have fallen victim to the tempo of the times as it were.

I am interested in seeing the "paper" indicating the ships arrival at NYC of the "SS Madonna" earlier than 1905.

By the way thought you may be interested in Scandinanvian ships for the 1852 to 1868 period. www.xmission.com/~nelsonb/ship_desc.htm =Peter=
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Re: Help

Postby scandinavianancestry » 11 Sep 2009, 15:58

Hi!
And thanks for that link! Those are tricky to find, the early emigrants from Scandinavia. Lots of them went through Germany and were listed as German as they entered the US.

I have not been able to see any SS Madonna (only variations of Donna) coming in before 1905, and you're right they changed names with owners etc. However, I think that it might have been a loss of memory in this case. 1901-1903 (that's what one census states for both of them as year of immigration) is likely for Raffaele though. I have gone through a lot and so far stumbled over a bunch of Raffaeles without last names due to destroyed log books. He might be one of them.

As to how much we should trust in written 'papers' or documents like the declaration of intention he signed in 1938 I don't know. He was 63 years old then and many years had passed. I'm not even sure about his age, ssdi and his papers shows May 3 1875. His WW1 draft says July 20 1879. We have only looked for someone born in 1875, maybe a search for someone born in 1879 would give something? He was also listed as born abt. 1880 (as well as his wife Carmela) in the 1930 census of Cleveland, OH. So, I think 'a thinking out of the box' is necessary in this case. (I so wish Italy had created emigration data bases like the ones I use for ex. Sweden, Norway and Denmark!)

Susanna

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Re: Help

Postby vj » 11 Sep 2009, 17:00

PeterTimber wrote:...I am interested in seeing the "paper" indicating the ships arrival at NYC of the "SS Madonna" earlier than 1905.
... =Peter=


Here you go Peter, from the earlier post that Laura linked above
Valarie

If this is his, it states he arrived in New York on 5 Aug 1902 on the SS Madonna and that Carmela arrived on 10 Feb 1905

(click here) 1938 Declaration of Intention with picture
Publication Number: M1995
Publication Title: Naturalization Petition and Record Books for the US District Court for the Northern District of Ohio, Eastern Division, Cleveland, 1907-1946
Content Source: NARA
State: Ohio
Court: Northern District, Eastern Division
Surname: Iasalvatore
Given Name: Raffaele
Document Type: Declaration of Intention
Document Date Year: 1938
Birth Country: Italy
---

and this Petition for Naturalization states that Carmela arrived 5 Feb 1905 in New York

1943 Petition for Naturalization
Publication Number: M1995
Publication Title: Naturalization Petition and Record Books for the US District Court for the Northern District of Ohio, Eastern Division, Cleveland, 1907-1946
Content Source: NARA
State: Ohio
Court: Northern District, Eastern Division
Surname: Iasalvatore
Given Name: Raffaele
Document Type: Petition for Naturalization
Document Date Year: 1943
Birth Country: Italy

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Re: Help

Postby sal4 » 12 Sep 2009, 02:30

Hello Everyone......1st I would like to thank all for trying to search for this record of how my Grandfather entered the US!!!!I can't thank you all enough!!!............As of the papers that I have, are a typed letter stating dates, ship name, his place of birth, my Grandmothers place of birth, marriage date etc.....One is in English & the other in Italian, all stating what I have posted here on the forum.....I have the declaration of intent, Naturalization papers and they all state he came on the SS Madonna in 1902......I started the ship search about 2 yrs ago with no luck and now I have been looking everynight for months, on LDS, Ancestry.com, Ellis Island, Castle Garden......I have talked to my cousins and they are split on how he entered America, some think that he may of been a stowaway and some say that he entered the US as he stated on the papers that I have.............I have been trying to find living family of my grandfathers brother in NY with no luck there either.....My father & all of his siblings have passed and I have to go by the records on hand and what Valerie and others have found for me a few months past.......I have looked under the names Iasalvatore, Salvatore and different spellings of the names with no luck.....His birth date is 1875, I have his birth record from Italy that is dated around 1943.......Peter I will attach a copy of this paper to your pm, both the English & Italian verision...(I have never had any luck trying to download records to the forum)........Again THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR THE TIME EACH OF YOU HAVE SPENT SEARCHING!!!......Sal4
Looking for surnames Iasalvatore (Salvatore), Tartaglia, Rosetta, Consola, Di Muccio, Castellano, Montanaro, Dipaolo, Costa, Sansone, Giudicianni and Laudato.

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Re: Help

Postby wldspirit » 12 Sep 2009, 09:41

Hoping this link works, these are all the ships arriving in August of 1902, with a subscription to Ancestry, these ships can be searched page by page.

Ships

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