Ranello / Carnevale

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Ranello / Carnevale

Postby jbange » 05 Oct 2009, 00:47

Trying to track down my GGF. His name was Bernardino Ranello. He was married to Cristina Carnevale. I can find where she emigrated from Busso, Italy in 1905, but can't find his immigration records. Any help would be appreciated.

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Jim

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misbris
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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby misbris » 05 Oct 2009, 01:05

I know that you had a previous post. Is this new info or a continuation?

http://italiangenealogy.tardio.com/Foru ... 13158.html


I found this record, don't know iif it is a possibliliy.

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0006

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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby jbange » 05 Oct 2009, 01:13

Yes, that was me, but was totally wrong on the name. I found my GF's baptism certificate and his name was Bernardino Ranello, not Benedetto Ranelli (as previously thought). I saw that Ellis Island record, but wasn't sure because of the name being Berardo Ranalli. So hard for me to tell if this is the same guy with a bad spelling?

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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby misbris » 05 Oct 2009, 01:27

It is hard to tell because there is so little info on the manifest, but the time is right, the town, and he was going to New Jersey. Is the age close?


The FHC does have records for Busso. Have you checked them?

ttp://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/ ... olumns=*,0,

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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby jbange » 05 Oct 2009, 01:29

Age seems right. No I haven't looked at that site, but will. Thank you so much for the advice. I have really hit a brick wall and this helps alot.

Jim

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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby JohnArmellino » 05 Oct 2009, 04:16

Just a thought. Ranallo is a very common name in Busso. [There are also concentrations of the surname Ranallo in Abruzzo.] Perhaps your GGF's name was actually Bernardino Ranallo and he was from Busso? In fact, if you look at the 1905 Ellis Island manifest for Cristina Carnevale, it states that she was going to join her husband Berardino Ranallo. BTW, the surname Carnevale, while not unknown in Busso, was widely dispersed throughout Molise.
John Armellino

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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby jbange » 06 Oct 2009, 00:26

That is my theory too. How do I go about confirming that this is him or not? Do I get someone in Italy to do research? Sorry about all the questions, just not sure on the next step.

Thanks.

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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby JohnArmellino » 06 Oct 2009, 02:39

I can check the Busso records next week. Maybe I can find a marriage record for Berardino Ranallo/Cristina Carnevale or a birth record(s) for one or both of them. My FHC is supposed to reopen on October 13 after being closed for eleven weeks!
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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby JohnArmellino » 13 Jan 2010, 06:57

Berardino Ranallo, celibe, contadino, born in Busso, son of Carmine Ranallo and Giovanna Coladangelo, was to be married to Cristina Carmela Carnevale, nubile, donna di casa, born in Baranello, daughter of Libero Carnevale and Filomena Muccillo [sic]. Source: Busso (Campobasso), Ufficio dello Stato Civile, Registri dello Stato Civile, 1809-1910, FHL INTL Film 1733182, PUBBLICAZIONI DI MATRIMONIO 1898, Numero due (2), 14 MAY 1898.

Berardino Ranallo was born in Busso on 19 AUG 1878, the son of Carmine Ranallo, age 28, contadino, and Giovanna Coladangelo. Source: Busso (Campobasso), Ufficio dello Stato Civile, Registri dello Stato Civile, 1809-1910, FHL INTL Film 1732872, NATI 1878, Numero 52, 20 AUG 1878.

Carmine Ranallo, age 22, son of Berardino Ranallo and Carmela Palladino, was to be married to Giovanna Coladangelo, age 20, daughter of Andrea Coladangelo and Mariantonia Saluppo. Source: Busso (Campobasso), Ufficio dello Stato Civile, Registri dello Stato Civile, 1809-1910, FHL INTL Film 1733182, PUBBLICAZIONI DI MATRIMONIO 1871, 23 DEC 1871.

Your great-grandfather Berardino Ranallo was born in Busso, while your great-grandmother Cristina Carmela Carnevale was born and lived in Baranello. They were married in Baranello. Both of these towns are in the province of Campobasso and region of Molise today.

Note that the spelling of the surname of Cristina Carnevale's mother is probable but not certain. The handwriting is unclear. The marriage record might clear it up, or if not, then Cristina's birth record.

The civil records for both Busso and Baranello have been filmed by the Mormons. Go to www.familysearch.org, then Library>FamilyHistoryLibraryCatalog>PlaceSearch, and type in the respective name of each town to view the film details. These films can be rented and viewed at the Family History Centers operarted by the Mormon Church. You can find the one nearest to you at the above website. I'm certain that you will be able to fill in other records and extend your line further back, especially with the help of the processetti records. We may even be related since my 2GGM was Libera Antonia Ranallo (1813-1876) of Busso. That line extends as follows: Libera Antonia Ranallo (1813-1876) > Giovanni Ranallo (1776-1847) > Nicola Ranallo (1729-1797) > Leopoldo Ranallo. Keep an eye out for a connection, as will I.
John Armellino

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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby jbange » 13 Jan 2010, 12:17

Thank you so much for your research on this. I am truly grateful. This gives me some great info to fill in the gaps and do some research myself. I have one nagging question, if you wouldn't mind helping me on, though. It seems the Ellis Island record has his name as Ranallo, but the 1920 Census has his name as Ranello, and my grandfather and mother was also Ranello. Was that typical to change like that?

Thank you again!

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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby johnnyonthespot » 13 Jan 2010, 12:40

jbange wrote:Thank you so much for your research on this. I am truly grateful. This gives me some great info to fill in the gaps and do some research myself. I have one nagging question, if you wouldn't mind helping me on, though. It seems the Ellis Island record has his name as Ranallo, but the 1920 Census has his name as Ranello, and my grandfather and mother was also Ranello. Was that typical to change like that?

Thank you again!


There are so many ways these spelling corruptions can occur. In handwritten script, sometimes an "a" looks like an "e" (and vice-versa). In spoken Italian ("Please spell your name, signore") the letter "a" sounds like "ahh" to English ears while "e" can have the sound of a long A (as in "cape" or "make"). These pronunciations are regional, adding to the difficulty. See http://www.zapitalian.com/Italian-Alpha ... habet.html for a pronunication guide.

The great majority of early Italian immigrants in the late 1800's through the end of WWII were so happy to be here that they didn't quibble about things like the way American authorities/landlords/employers spelled thier names. Not to mention the fact that many of them were illiterate and unable to read or write Italian, let alone English. When added to the quite different handwriting style seen in Italy as compared to the US ( https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Italy_Handwriting ) you begin to see just how easily name changes could occur.

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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby Italysearcher » 13 Jan 2010, 13:38

Sounds like you are now on the right track! Congratulations.
Ann Tatangelo
http://angelresearch.wordpress.com
ANNOYING THE SAINTS - Stories of my Life in Italy. http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... ly/7731505

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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby JohnArmellino » 13 Jan 2010, 14:21

I have one nagging question, if you wouldn't mind helping me on, though. It seems the Ellis Island record has his name as Ranallo, but the 1920 Census has his name as Ranello, and my grandfather and mother was also Ranello. Was that typical to change like that?


Not only can the spelling of a surname vary after immigration (as johnnyonthespot points out), but the spelling of surnames was far from consistent in Italy. My di Soccio surname was spelled di Soccio, di Suoccio, de Soccio, and de Socio through the years. Di Niro was also spelled di Nigris, del Negro, and de Niro. In Campobasso, the surname Celardo became Girardi and then reverted back to Celardo by the late 1800s. Inexplicably, Piunno (from San Giovanni in Galdo) became Bianchi after the family moved to Campobasso. I've seen three different spellings of a surname in one document! I advise that you keep an open mind as you proceed with your research. The records will help you trace the evolution of your surnames. BTW, the spelling of Ranallo has been consistent in Busso back through the early 1700s.
John Armellino

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Re: Ranello / Carnevale

Postby jbange » 13 Jan 2010, 21:29

You all are great! I can't thank you all enough for all the help.


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