PeterTimber wrote:Send an e-mail to the Director of the Frosinone Archivio di Stato V.Fontana@archivi.beniculturali.it and advise her of the lack of documents forthcoming from the comune of Roccasecca.
Peter, I worry that such a move might make a bad situation worse.
Here is the full story, copied from an earlier post of mine:
My mother's parents were born and wed in Malvito, a small village of about 2500 residents in the Cosenza province of southern Italy. On the two occasions which I wrote to Malvito and requested documents, I was delighted to receive a reply in less than two weeks. In the first instance, not only was I given the computer-generated birth and marriage record extracts, but the citizenship official even took the time to photocopy the original handwritten records and included these with his reply.
My father's parents were also born and wed in Italy; I won't mention the name of the comune for fear of making matters worse than they are, but will tell you that it is somewhat larger at around 7500 residents and located in central Italy about an hour's drive from Rome.
My wife and I were fortunate to have visited Italy in early March, 2007 and took a day from our travels to visit the village where, among other things, we stopped in at the municiapl offices and inquired about my grandparents. We were told it would take a few days to locate the records and could we come back? We said that we were returning to the States in two days and asked if they could mail the documents. They said they would.
In mid-April, 2007, having received nothing as of yet, I sent letters to the comune (using the well-known form letter generator [http://www.circolocalabrese.org/resources/letters/index.asp]) formally requesting the documents. In mid-August - four months since my previous request - I wrote to the Sindaco (again, using that well-known form letter generator) and requested that he intercede on my behalf.
After two more months with no response, I asked an American living in Italy who I had met on one of these boards for advice. As it turned out, she lived nearby and offered to visit the comune on my behalf. The official said, yes, I have his request right here on my desk and explained that he was still trying to locate my grandmother's birth record (for five months?). He gave her the other two documents, which she mailed to me that same day (I am forever in her debt).
Trying hard to salvage a bad situation, I wrote another letter to the official, as follows:
Dear Mr. ...,
I wish to thank you very sincerely for your kind assistance and for giving the birth and marriage certificates of my grandfather, xxxxx, to my friend xxxxx on 27 September 2007.
I feel it is possible that the information given for my grandmother, xxxxx, may have been in error and this is why you were not able to find her birth record. Additional research of records here in the United States indicates that she may have been born in October, 1883 or possibly October, 1885. Could you please check again and send me l'estratto dell'atto di nascita if you find the record?
I would also ask that you send to me the certificati cittadinanza and stato di famiglia for xxxxxx (born 16 March 1886) and xxxxxxx (born circa 1885). I would be happy to pay your customary fee for this service.
Finally, if you have any information regarding which church parish my grandparents may have been baptized or married in, this would be very helpful to me.
Please understand that all information regarding my grandparents in xxxxxx is of interest to me.
You may contact me by email (xxxxxx@xxxxxx) if you wish, or by regular postal mail.
I understand that it is a lot to ask, but hope that you could please send an email confirming your receipt of this letter soon after it arrives. Inasmuch as it comes from a great distance I would like to be sure that it has arrived at its destination. I am very grateful for your helpfulness.
Very sincerely, ...
I had the letter professionally translated and mailed it November 2, 2007. To date, I have not received a reply.
It is now a bit more than two years since that last letter and I have yet to receive a response of any kind!
In the ensuing period, I filed my dual citizenship application (NYC), received notification of its approval, obtained my Italian passport, etc. And, even though I and my wife are now Italian citizens registered in the Comune di Roccasecca, I cannot get a response from them!
However, life goes on. I continue to research my ancestors and, as an example of the way things should work, I recently wrote to Malvito and requested the birth/marriage/death records of my great-grandparents. Just two and one-half weeks later, I received a large envelope containing the computer generated extracts as well as photocopies of the original handwritten records for all four of them.
I most dearly want more information on my paternal side and having had no success with Comune di Roccasecca, I thought I would go directly to the state archives. Now that appears to be a dead-end...
I am sure you are aware of the Comune Roccasecca dei Volsci in the adjoining province of Latina. =Peter=
Yep, but it is most definitely Comune di Roccasecca in Frosinone which concerns me.
johnnyonthespot wrote:Having had no luck at all obtaining documents from my paternal grandparent's comune, I tried writing to the Archivio di Stato di Frosinone.
I received this response today, via email,
"In risposta alla richiesta in oggetto, La informiamo che questo Archivio di Stato non conserva i registri dello stato Civile del Comune di Roccasecca."
Which translates roughly as, "In response to the request in question, please note that this State Archives does not maintain records of civil status of the City of Roccasecca."
Really? I thought that all comuni forwarded these records to the state archives.
Roccasecca is in Frosinone province, but in the past was in Caserta province as so many other commons....
so you must write in Caserta State Archive and not in Frosinone, or maybe you can try in Mormon's microfilms:
Title Registri dello stato civile, 1809-1865
Authors Roccasecca (Frosinone). Ufficio dello stato civile (Main Author)
Microriproduzione dei registri originali nell'Archivio di Stato, Caserta http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library ... ato+civile &columns=*,0,0
Dear Johnnyonthespot...You certainly did. I must confess reading your travails made for interesting reading (with all due respects to your psyche). It warrants a chapter in a book relating to cogbreaking. =Peter=
The parish records in Roccasecca are intact. There are only two parishes. If the town cannot create a record for you for citizenship purposes I am sure they will accept a parish record.
The town suffered much during WW2 and many of the civil records were destroyed. After 1865 it was no longer mandatory to send a second copy of civil acts to the State Archives which is why you won't find them for many towns. The State Archives in Frosinone showed me the letter they mailed to all the towns in the Province when they knew the LDS would be microfilming. What they received is what is on film, but many records had no duplicates ready to send and they didn't bother to make them. Hence, there are many gaps in the microfilms but the towns records may still be complete.
I will send a letter to Archivio di Stato di Caserta just to see what happens, but I must make note of the following:
This page (Google translation here), seems to indicate that Caserta turned over all Roccasecca records to the Frosinone archives in 1973. Clicking the Giurisdizione civile ("Civil Jurisdiction") link leads me to believe that civil records from 1834 through 1890 should be available in Frosinone, not Caserta.
The records mentioned in that page are related to sentences issued by civil and penal tribunals, they are not vital record.
I suggest that you get back to the director of the Archivio di Stato di Frosinone and ask where the vital records for Roccasecca can be found.
I am frequently at the Archives in Frosinone. The civil records for Roccasecca for 1809 to 1865 are in Caserta. Frosinone does not have any for Roccasecca after 1865 due to destruction of records in Roccasecca during WW2. I have been to the anagrafe in Roccasecca and this is what they told me. They have some, but they are incomplete. The only complete records for Roccasecca are at the Parish church and unless you have a date, the priest won't usually conduct a search.
Dear Italy Searcher your book title reminds me of the time we rented a house just below Fiesole and it was up a hill and one day while we were walking up my with bowed heads our neighbor sighed and said " I Santi ti aiutano soltanto quando scende" =Peter=