Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

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Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby ealbertorio » 01 Feb 2010, 22:48

Hello everyone,

I am an Albertorio and from the town of Villalba in Puerto Rico, and close to the town Juana Diaz. My question is that my parents are not sure if the Albertorio surname is either Italian or Spanish and any close relatives do not know as well :(......

Could anyone knowing the origin of the Albertorio surname tell me f I am part Italian or part Spanish? I am really curious to know :)

Plus I was told that the surname Albertorio was derived from another surname! From some research, I think it is Albertario (probably some misspell), which comes from the town of Piedmonte in Italy and close to the Corsican Island where most Italian descendants of Puerto Rico come from. Does anyone related to an Albertario know of any leaving to America, specifically Puerto Rico???

If it helps the parents of my grandfather were cousins, supposedly both Albertorio. Their names were Tomasa and Juan Albertorio, and the earliest records we know of them are from 1875, but NOTHING as to who their parents were or where they were from! Maybe someone's Great-Grandfather also had cousins as Great-Grandparents...then again...:p.

If you could help us settle this, then our family will finally have a clear understanding of where our roots are from, and trust me it is sad telling people you do not know about your family's ancestry.

Best
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby PeterTimber » 02 Feb 2010, 00:25

You might wish to see if there is a family crest (Escudo in Spanish) for Albertorio at www.crests.com/is_your_name_here.htm

I suspect that there are several spellings for the surname but see what you can come up with. There are noistings for the surname ALBERTORIO in the Italian surname dictionary but there are no variants,alterations orderivations for that spelling. The base names in Italian from whence all changes of surnames come from is either ALBERI or ALBERTI and even ALBINI and ALBIZI.

Please let me know how you make out with any heraldic sources for your Albertario or Albertorio. =Peter=
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Feb 2010, 00:59

But, Albertario is listed at L'origine dei cognomi Italiani.
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby PeterTimber » 02 Feb 2010, 01:17

Albertario or even Albertorio are not listed as Italian surnames inthe Italian Surname Dictionary and are imported from abroad even though they are Italian surnames much like unlisted local surnames in Italy. I suspected that this was the case. The base name for this variant is ALBERTA and Albertario is scrambled in the group of several other whose origin is Longobard french. =Peter=
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Feb 2010, 03:46

PeterTimber wrote:Albertario or even Albertorio are not listed as Italian surnames inthe Italian Surname Dictionary and are imported from abroad even though they are Italian surnames much like unlisted local surnames in Italy. I suspected that this was the case. The base name for this variant is ALBERTA and Albertario is scrambled in the group of several other whose origin is Longobard french. =Peter=


Yes, yes, but neither my paternal or maternal surnames are listed in the directory and my families can be found in Italy at least as far back as the mid-1700's, well before the unification of Italy.

So, for the question at hand - does the original poster have Italian roots - it certainly is possible.
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby PeterTimber » 02 Feb 2010, 04:00

It may be Italian but its roots are not Italian but Longobard who invaded northern Italy from Germany in the 8th century and later from France. Since Spain occupied most of Italy from 1559 to 1713 there may be persons bearing several variations of Alberta and assumed it was Spanish but its roots are Longobardo based upon the surname ALBERTO. =Peter=
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby ealbertorio » 02 Feb 2010, 09:22

Hi guys, thanks for the help. I have searched for the crests of both Albertorio and Albertario for a while and have not been able to find them. I cannot access the link that you gave me Peter.

Peter, when you say Longoboard, do you mean to say that the word origin and family of Alberta/orio is of French descent? Also, can you post the noistings you found of the surname ALBERTORIO in the italian surname dictionary. Thanks!

Johnny, when you say your family dates to the 1700s are you refering to your familyof Albertario or Albertorio?

-Ealbertorio
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Feb 2010, 12:12

ealbertorio wrote:Johnny, when you say your family dates to the 1700s are you refering to your familyof Albertario or Albertorio?

-Ealbertorio


No, not at all.

Just that while many "Italians" have names which have their roots outside of Italy and/or cannot trace their lineage back to Julius Caeser (yes, I am being facetious here), we are just as Italian as the next guy.

The surnames of my grandparents, while not listed in the book which Peter referred to, are nonethelss widespread throughout Italy and have been for centuries (at the minimum). More importantly - since so many people on these boards have an interest in obtaining Italian citizenship - the only question which really pertains is, were your ancestors in "Italy" at the time it bcame a unified country in March, 1861? If yes, then you are Italian - even if your surname is Smith or Jones.

There is certaily the possibilty that your name Albertorio is a corruption of an original Italian spelling Albertario. The only way to find out is through diligent genealogy; obtain as many official birth certificates to form a line of ancestors who were born in Puerto Rico until you reach a certificate which names parents from another country. And then you will know where your roots are, regardless of the roots of your name.
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby ealbertorio » 05 Feb 2010, 07:53

Okay I was hoping to hit the mark on my family's ancestry but I guess that best way is just to try to look for the birth certificates...thanks!

If someone else knows anything about Albertorio's roots feel free to contact me!

and please peter as soon as you can write me whatever you found or you johnny as well. I found a little on ancestry but not too useful...
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby pink67 » 05 Feb 2010, 08:51

Their names were Tomasa and Juan Albertorio, and the earliest records we know of them are from 1875, but NOTHING as to who their parents were or where they were from!


is this 1930 census manifest pertaining your ancestors??

1930 United States Federal Census
about Tomasa Albertorio
Name: Tomasa Albertorio
Home in 1930: Villalba Abajo, Villalba, Puerto Rico
View Map
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father's Name: Ramon
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace: View image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Tomasa Albertorio 55 head, female, single?, born in Puerto Rico (parents born in Puerto Rico)
Georgina Region 15 daughter, single, born in Puerto Rico
Teresa Figueroa 14 boarder?
Filia Moralez 18 boarder?
Ramon Albertorio Juan 75 father, married, born in Puerto Rico (parents born in Puerto Rico)

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqHL7XJ

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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby PeterTimber » 05 Feb 2010, 14:14

Dear Johnny your letting your emotions take over...If your surname does not appear to be listed inthe Italian surname dcitionary then it is either local in origin or imported into Italy and Italianzied. names started out as nicknames, anecdotes, occupations and became first names and later last names or surnames. =Peter=
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 05 Feb 2010, 19:12

PeterTimber wrote:Dear Johnny your letting your emotions take over...If your surname does not appear to be listed inthe Italian surname dcitionary then it is either local in origin or imported into Italy and Italianzied. names started out as nicknames, anecdotes, occupations and became first names and later last names or surnames. =Peter=


Yes, Peter - I get emotional because you and I (and, yes, others on both sides) will never agree on this issue.

First, you continually speak of a book which contains just 15,000 +/- entries even though we are aware of a newer volume which contains some 60,000 entries.

Second, we have never ascertained the parameters which were used by Emilio De Felice (?) to determine what names made it into his book and what names did not. Certainly, it is a very old book and the author did not have any of the tools available to modern researchers such as electronic, searchable, sortable, databases of censuses and births.

Third, the issue of interest to almost everyone here is not where did my name originate a thousand or so years ago, but rather am I Italian? And, as we know, there are millions of "Italians" living in Italy today whose surnames are not in the book. So, for all intents and purposes, it is meaningless.
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby PeterTimber » 05 Feb 2010, 22:22

All the surnames are Italian much like all the surnames inthe USA are American even though they are almost all imported into the USA and Americanized to some extent but not totally as you very well know and experience. The dictionary I use is a reference book and one referred to by other scholarly works. The website you use is not reference material.

The Italian surnames are divided into three categories One is Classic Italian, based upon ancient history, religion and with substantial Italian roots over a wide area of the peninsula. The second category are Common surnames derived from local sources...economic activity, anecdotes, jokes, nicknames starting out as first names and evolvinginto surnames and lastly imported and italianized surnames from the myriad northern europe invasions,all other migrations and cultural infusions including langiages. =Peter=
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby ealbertorio » 06 Feb 2010, 06:36

Laura! Yes!! Those were the names! Thank you so much for this image! however did you find it?

This brings me to another question about my ancestors...I thought that they came from another country, according to my parents! Now as you said Tomasa's father was white. Could it be referring to him being European Caucasian? or just white as in white-skin? I know theywere white-skinned in fact one of them was blond with blue eyes (I think Tomasa's husband)

We are so close! I can feel it!
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Re: Albertorio or Albertario...Italian or Spanish?

Postby pink67 » 06 Feb 2010, 09:01

I found the 1930 census manifest on the (payment) site Ancestry.com , is this 1910 census correct too??

1910 United States Federal Census
about Tomasa Albertorio Y Cintron
Name: Tomasa Albertorio Y Cintron
[Tomasa Albertorio Cintron]
Age in 1910: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Birthplace: Puerto Rico
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father's Birth Place: Puerto Rico
Mother's Birth Place: Puerto Rico

Home in 1910: Villalba Abajo, Juana Diaz, Puerto Rico
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Gender: Female
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Tomasa Albertorio Y Cintron 35 female, white, single, mother of 5 children among whom only 4 living, born in Puerto Rico (her parents born in Puerto rico)
Arturo Albertorio 8 son, born in Puerto Rico
Maria Albertorio 5 daughter, born in Puerto Rico
Luis Albertorio 7 son, born in Puerto Rico

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx3V7i0

possible 1910 census for Tomasa's father Ramon Albertorio??

1910 United States Federal Census
about Ramon Albertorio Y Matos
Name: Ramon Albertorio Y Matos
[Ramon Albertorio Matos]
Age in 1910: 51
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Birthplace: Puerto Rico
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father's Birth Place: Puerto Rico
Mother's Birth Place: Puerto Rico

Spouse's name: Maria
Home in 1910: Villalba Abajo, Juana Diaz, Puerto Rico
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Gender: Male
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ramon Albertorio Y Matos 51 head, married since 28 years (this date doesn't match with Tomasaìs age :? )born in Puerto Rico (his parents born in Puerto rico too)
Maria Cintron Y Zayas 47 wife, mother of 12 children among whom only 8 living.
[49]
Juan B Albertorio Cintron 20 son
Emilio Albertorio Y Cintron 18 son
Ramon Albertorio Y Cintron 12 son
Ermelindo Albertorio Y Cintron 10 son
Eterlinda Albertorio Y Cintron 8 daughter
Olimpio Albertorio Y Cintron 6 son
Maria Albertorio Y Cintron 4 daughter
Natalia Albertorio Y Coronado 30 cousin

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts4YInJ

Laura
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