Gargaro surname in Naples question.

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milesbrown
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Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby milesbrown » 07 Apr 2010, 12:38

Firstly great forum! Will be using this alot in the future.

I am researching my Italian ancestors and I've come as far as finding a census in 1891 which has my Great x2 Grandfather listed as the head of the household and being born in 1859 in Naples.

His first child was born in 1880/1881 in Clerkenwell, London. So I'm guessing he travelled from Italy between 1859 and 1879.

His first wife was an English lady from Devon called Elizabeth but I cannot find a marriage certificate for them. I know that Luigi was a Roman Catholic and Elizabeth was Church of England: Is that is relevant to why I can't find it?

This is where my search ends, I am unsure of which records I would need to look at to find more information on him such as date of entry to the UK or his full date of birth.

The information I have on him are that he was born 1859 as Luigi Gargaro in Naples, Italy that and he died about 1920 as Louis Gargaro in Woolwich, London.

I am visiting Naples in July so if anybody knows where I could go to find out more about him (i.e. city archives or church records) when I am visiting that would be great!

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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby PeterTimber » 07 Apr 2010, 12:59

Oftimes when people say they were born in Napoli they sometimes are born inthe province of Napoli and in Italy most records are in the city,town or even village of origin so that I ask are you absolutely sure he was borninthe city of Napoli and not the province of Napoli??? You can always write to Napoli of course with form letters that are in Italian and docuemnts are forwarded to you free of charge!=Peter=
~Peter~

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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby maestra36 » 07 Apr 2010, 14:26

I understand it is very difficult to research in the archives in Naples. I have a doctor friend who practices in Naples and is a local historian for a nearby area. He had to present an official request to a Judge
of the Court of Naples explaining what he wanted to research, the reason for his research, the names of the persons he was searching, etc.
Then he received an authorization, which limited him as to time (from the day – to the day) and hours (only in the morning) to access the Central Registry Office in the Naples Town Hall. When he started his research, the responsible person in the office was with him for few minutes, but then had other work to do, so he was left alone to go through the registers by himself. To search in the parish register in the town, he had to first put in a request with the Bishop Office's there.

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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby suanj » 07 Apr 2010, 15:06

Hi,
really it is very difficult... in 1891 census the birthyear is 1857;
1891 England Census
about Luigi Gargaro
Name: Luigi Gargaro
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Ittes, Wales (???)

Civil parish: Greenwich
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: Greenwich East
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Luigi Gargaro 34
Elizabeth Gargaro 30 (born in Monkleigh, Devon, England)
Pominie Gargaro 10 (born in Clerkenwell, London, England)
Luigi Gargaro 8 ( born in Woolwich, Kent, England)
Charles Gargaro 6 (born in Woolwich, Kent, England)

in 1901 is 1859; maybe he was born before of 1857 also;
1901 England Census
about Louis Gargaro
Name: Louis Gargaro
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Italy

Civil parish: Charlton
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Woolwich
Sub-registration district: Charlton
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 183
Household Members: Name Age
Louis Gargaro 42
Louisa Gargaro 35
Louis Gargaro 18
George Gargaro 5
Albert Gargaro 2
Harry Gargaro 11 months

I already made some search of italians in UK and it is very usual the birthyear error... they was born always before....

now, I believe that this records are abt your Luigi Gargaro:
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Lewis Gargaro
Name: Lewis Gargaro (wd)
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Spouse Name: Frances Smith
Spouse Age: 32
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 3 Sep 1893
Parish: St Mary Magdalene
County: Middlesex
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Mike Gargaro
Spouse Father Name: Edward Smith

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Lewis Gargaro
Name: Lewis Gargaro (wd)
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Spouse Name: Emma Louisa Watson Bates
Spouse Age: 28
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 29 Apr 1894
Parish: All Saints, Stoke Newington
County: Middlesex
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: Mike Gargaro
Spouse Father Name: George Bates
the first marriage was with Elizabeth Farley, but I cannot find it...
if this records are abt YOUR Luigi Gargaro, well the father name is Michele( Mike) Gargaro...
on familysearch it are only this record:
Event(s):
Birth: 28 APR 1855 Atina, Frosinone, Italy

Christening:
Death:
Burial:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: Michele Gargaro Family
Mother: Loreta Fasoli
but is hard to say if is the richt record ....

so I agree with Peter Timber, abt Naples birthtown; maybe he was born no in Naples(Napoli) but near....
best regards,
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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby suanj » 07 Apr 2010, 15:16

I found the 1881 census:
1881 England Census
about Louie Gargan
Name: Louie Gargan
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizth.
Gender: Male
Where born: Italy

Civil parish: Woolwich Arsenal
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 54 High St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Musician

Registration district: Woolwich
Sub-registration district: Woolwich Arsenal
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Louie Gargan 23
Elizth. Gargan 21
Domai Gargan
John Paganot 37 boarder
Louie Ronkelly 32 boarder
Samuel Seinor 25 boarder


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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby milesbrown » 07 Apr 2010, 22:30

Suanj, yes I too saw this census record!! It is transcribed very, very badly though!! If you look at the actual document it in fact says Naples and not 'Wales' HAHA

Also Pominie is meant to read Dominic! The only piece I actually am unsure of is the squiggles that it transcribed as 'Ittes' as the district of Napoli. If anyone could actually work out what it is meant to say that would be great as it would probably give me the answer to PeterTimber's thought: Naples could be the region and the 'Ittes/Ittea' or whatever it says could be the district of Naples maybe?!

Also I recieved an e-mail Greenwich Council Parks and Cemeteries department earlier today and found out that Luigi Gargaro was buried in March 1920 at Charlton Cemetery aged 61. He lived at 749 Woolwich Road at the time of his death! Really pleased with the fast response from Greenwich! Didn't expect it so soon and for free!

All the census information is so interesting may I ask where you got such extensive information? I got a free-trial to Ancestry.co.uk and I didn't get anything on Emma Louise or Elizabeth's surname and I was searching for days!! Thank you so much for your help it is wholly appreciated by not only me but my family too!

So now I does anyone think they could take a guess at what the census meant to say instead of 'Wales - Ittes' for Luigi's hometown? It's definately 'Naples - ' but the 'Ittes' is totally unreadable to me!

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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby suanj » 08 Apr 2010, 09:13

Hi, abt Ittes..it is a mystery... here the town in Italy starting with "I" http://www.solitalia.it/comuni-italiani/comuni-i.htm
and the only possible is Ischia (isle)... in Naples gulf... but it is hard to say something.... if your ancestor was born in Atina, it could be possible that on the census it are Ittis?
abt Marriages inquiry, the database by ancestry.com is:
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby Seraphina » 08 Apr 2010, 13:54

Miles,
I think Suanj is probably correct in saying that Atina was the birthplace of Louis Gargaro. In mid to late 19th century there were many immigrants into the UK from that area of Italy.

In the Italian phone book (pagine bianche) there are currently about a dozen people with the Gargaro surname living in Atina. However, there are many more in the surrounding area, so it might be a good place to start searching prior to visiting Italy in July.

Hope this helps.
Seraphina

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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby milesbrown » 12 May 2010, 18:17

suanj wrote:the first marriage was with Elizabeth Farley, but I cannot find it...


Hi suanj,

One thing I overlooked was something that you told me that I never knew.
You told me Luigi Gargaro's first marraige was with Elizabeth 'Farley'.

How did you find out her maiden name and from which record? I've only known her as Elizabeth 'Gargaro'.
Thank you so much!

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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby suanj » 12 May 2010, 19:26

from this record:
.
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about May Beatrice Grace Elizabeth Gargaro
Name: May Beatrice Grace Elizabeth Gargaro
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 5 Feb 1888
Father's Name: Louis Gargaro

Mother's Name: Elizabeth Farley Gargaro
Parish: Holy Trinity, Woolwich
Borough: Greenwich
County: Middlesex

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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby carolinechurch » 12 May 2010, 19:58

Hi Miles.
I've corrected the ancestry transcription to read Naples.
Looking at the rest of the page, it has definitely been written with an I, and with an EA at the end - ITTEA, so to an English speaking census collector this is how ATINA may have sounded.

Miles, ancestry.co.uk has all the information you could ever need to keep you happy.
You just need to be quite abstract with searching.
Very often records are transcribed incorrectly - this being a typical case, plus our ancestors often could not write, or with the census, relied on an enumerator to write the information.
You can search for names using a 'wildcard' where you use certain letters of the name you are searching and replace others with *** so it searches every possible variation.
Something else I do if really stuck is to check the same information on other websites like originsnetwork, or findmypast.co.uk as they are transcribed independently. My subscription with findmypast has expired, so I'm sorry I can't look it up for you.

I am also stuck with a London ancestor from Naples with no hint as to where, so wish you luck in solving your mystery.
Caroline.
Searching for my great x3 grandfather Raffaele CIACCIA, also known as Raphael/Ralph CHURCH. He was born in Napoli around 1792 and arrived in London before 1812 with his brother Saverio CIACCIA, where they married sisters Ann and Jane FURNEAUX. He switched between CHURCH and CIACCIA all his life, which has made it difficult enough to pin him down. I want to find his origin in Italy.

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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby carolinechurch » 12 May 2010, 20:20

Me again.
While you have your free ancestry trial: go to the home page, where it says 'What's happening at Ancestry.co.uk', and you'll see a list of London parish records under 'featured records'
I just searched for Gargaro under London, England, marriages and banns and your Luigi is there, so you can see and save the original records for his marriage and banns.
Just right click and save them to your computer so you will always have them.
You'll also find the marriages for at least three of his sons.

Do the same for London baptisms and you'll find his children, plus it confirms that his first wife was Elizabeth Farley.
Not sure there's anyone under deaths, but have a play with the wild card and see what happens.
There are also numerous other sites for London genealogy - best place in the country to be from!
I'll post some links for you later when I have time.
Caroline.
Searching for my great x3 grandfather Raffaele CIACCIA, also known as Raphael/Ralph CHURCH. He was born in Napoli around 1792 and arrived in London before 1812 with his brother Saverio CIACCIA, where they married sisters Ann and Jane FURNEAUX. He switched between CHURCH and CIACCIA all his life, which has made it difficult enough to pin him down. I want to find his origin in Italy.

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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby carolinechurch » 13 May 2010, 09:15

The plot thickens.
His wife was recorded as Elizabeth Farley in 1888, on their daughter's christening, and on the 1881 and 1891 census. I didn't find their marriage, which presumably would be around 1879-80, or a death for Elizabeth.
He married again, to Frances Smith in September 1893 (was recorded as a bachelor) she died in December of the same year, and he remarried for the third time in April 1894, to Emma Bates (he was listed as a widower this time)
A busy man!
Searching for my great x3 grandfather Raffaele CIACCIA, also known as Raphael/Ralph CHURCH. He was born in Napoli around 1792 and arrived in London before 1812 with his brother Saverio CIACCIA, where they married sisters Ann and Jane FURNEAUX. He switched between CHURCH and CIACCIA all his life, which has made it difficult enough to pin him down. I want to find his origin in Italy.

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Re: Gargaro surname in Naples question.

Postby stuartcapaldi » 14 May 2010, 07:41

I have Gargaro names in my family tree.

If you take into account that names in Italy are very local and also that there is a distinct pattern to where certain villages and towns emigrated to.

The val di comino villages emigrated and worked in Germany, France, Belgium, England, Wales and Scotland and USA.

My family came from San Giuseppe, Picinisco and settled in Scotland where there are numerous Gargaro families.

There is a village on the opposite side of the valley from San Giuseppe called "Liscia" it can be seen clearly from San Giuseppe and is on the road to San Biagio Saracinisco.

Could his birth place be Liscia not Ittes Naples?

Please check my web site www.capaldi-clan.com which has details of all villages in Picinisco and Villa Latina etc.
Stuart Capaldi


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