Need help obtaining a death certificate

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CompGeekJTP
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Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby CompGeekJTP » 21 Apr 2010, 15:29

I tried purchasing a death certificate for my great-grandfather, Giovanni Perri, through the NYC department of health website. They returned a letter stating that I did not give enough information. I included the date of death which to me should really be all the information they need. I submitted a request for a different death certificate for another one of my ancestors with the same lack of information and I received the certificate within two weeks. I really am at a loss as to how to get this death certificate. Does anyone have any alternate ideas? Without this record, I will not be able to discover who his parent's were. I hate to think I am stalled here. :(

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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby Bette » 21 Apr 2010, 23:36

I always thought the Birth Certificate was more reliable than a death certificate to find out the parents' names. Reason being that the living provide the information for the death certificate and it may not always be accurate. Have you tried to get the birth records? What about the marriage records? Have you tried for that one?

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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby maestra36 » 21 Apr 2010, 23:44

what year did he die? There is a NYC death index at the following website. If you find him in the index, you will have the certificate number and can order the record directly through the website link. Database only goes to 1948 though.

http://www.italiangen.org/NYCDeathSearch.asp

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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby maestra36 » 21 Apr 2010, 23:50

I did a sound search for possible alternate spellings. You can also just use his first initial in the search in case they misspelled his first name or maybe he is under the name Joseph

Pauria Giuseppe 29 y Dec 7 1919 31989 Manhattan

Perri Giuseppe 45 y Nov 23 1904 38345 Manhattan

Perri Giuseppe 72 y Apr 28 1906 14227 Manhattan

Pierro Giuseppe 49 y Oct 21 1893 37338 Manhattan

Pierro Giuseppe 31 y Mar 6 1903 7547 Manhattan

Piro Giuseppe 49 y Jun 27 1927 15936 Manhattan

Piro Giuseppe 55 y Nov 19 1928 29837 Manhattan

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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby maestra36 » 21 Apr 2010, 23:54

sorry I thought you had Giuseppe and now I see you had Giovanni.

Perri Giovanni 75 y Jan 16 1930 1347 Kings

Perri John 44 y Aug 21 1923 5542 Bronx

Perri John 74 y Mar 14 1923 6232 Kings

Perri John 4 y Oct 14 1928 7882 Bronx

Perri John 55 y Dec 13 1944 24274 Kings

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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby CompGeekJTP » 23 Apr 2010, 10:11

He died October 20, 1950.

I can not get the birth records. I don't know where in Calabria he was born or a date. I tried searching marriage records and also have been unable to find him in there. It's possible his record was never transcribed or that when he first came here, his last name was shortened to Perri.

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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby johnnyonthespot » 23 Apr 2010, 10:25

Perhaps you are wrong regarding the date of death? That might explain your first post above.

Searching the Social Security Death Index, the only likely record I found was:

Name - JOHN PERRY
Birth - 22 Apr 1875
Death - Jan 1950
Last Residence - (not specified)
Last Benefit - (not specified)
SSN - 100-07-4432
Issued - New York

You can order a copy of his original Social Security Card application (you don't need to know the SS# to order) here https://secure.ssa.gov/apps9/eFOIA-FEWe ... t/main.jsp

Among other bits, the application will include father's name and mother's full maiden name as reported directly by the applicant.
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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby johnnyonthespot » 23 Apr 2010, 10:43

PS: As noted here, http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rwguide/lesson10.htm

Reasons you might not find someone in the SSDI

Social Security officially was begun in 1937, with some payments being paid as early as 1940. However, the Social Security Death Index is the computerized index to deaths reported and/or death benefits paid out starting in 1962. The SSDI includes a few pre-1962 entries, but the great majority of those included in this index are from 1962 through the present time.

While the limitations of dates may exclude your family member, other reasons that your ancestor may not be included in the SSDI might have to do with his or her occupation or lack thereof.

Prior to the 1960s, farmers, housewives, government employees, non-employed individuals, and those with a separate retirement plan might not have had a Social Security number. It was not until 1988 that all children had to have Social Security numbers.


Nonetheless, if the goal is to find the names of a deceased person's parents, a Social Security application request is a good place to begin. The complete application includes:

•Full name
•Full name at birth, including maiden name
•Present mailing address
•Age at last birthday
•Date of birth
•Place of birth (city, county, State)
•Father's full name
•Mother's full name, including maiden name
•Sex
•Race as indicated by the applicant
•Whether the applicant ever applied for Social Security or Railroad Retirement before
•Current employer's name and address
•Date signed
•Applicant's signature

( http://genealogy.about.com/od/online_re ... equest.htm )
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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby suanj » 23 Apr 2010, 13:19

CompGeekJTP wrote:I tried purchasing a death certificate for my great-grandfather, Giovanni Perri, through the NYC department of health website. They returned a letter stating that I did not give enough information. I included the date of death which to me should really be all the information they need. I submitted a request for a different death certificate for another one of my ancestors with the same lack of information and I received the certificate within two weeks. I really am at a loss as to how to get this death certificate. Does anyone have any alternate ideas? Without this record, I will not be able to discover who his parent's were. I hate to think I am stalled here. :(

Hi,
maybe could be helpful to know the wife name and children names, so it could be possible to have a better idea of right Giovanni Perri...
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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby suanj » 23 Apr 2010, 13:30

I found a death record of a Joseph Perri died the 20 Sep 1950, born in Crotone (Calabria, IT) and married at Rosa Giordano in 1898 in Italy :

http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newpapers% ... ehtml&.pdf
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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby CompGeekJTP » 24 Apr 2010, 12:32

The date of death is correct. It was taken from a prayer card that my father found in a box of photos and other random items.

I saw that same listing for the death in Jan 1950 and i thought maybe the month was just estimated due to the fact that the original record could be missing or legibly unclear.

I did include his wife's name on the application. I have no clue as to his parent's names.

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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby johnnyonthespot » 24 Apr 2010, 13:01

CompGeekJTP wrote:I saw that same listing for the death in Jan 1950 and i thought maybe the month was just estimated due to the fact that the original record could be missing or legibly unclear.


I have a good feeling about the January 1950 social security record, but I admit not so strong that I would want to invest $16 or $27 to find out for certain.

On the other hand, maybe New York didn't find the death certificate because he used the legal name John Perry instead of Giovanni/John Perri?

Do you know when/where he was born and if he always lived in New York after immigrating? I found a Declaration of Intent record (filed in Spokane, WA) on Ancestry . com for a John Perry born Paranta, Italy, June 26, 1893.

Also, another Declaraion of Intent for wife Josephine who lists her husband as Pietro Giovanni Battista Perry and birthplace as Parenti, Italy. She entered the US in New York, June 13, 1906, under the name of Grazia Venere.
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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby suanj » 24 Apr 2010, 13:42

a bit back:
1930 United States Federal Census
about John Perri
Name: John Perri
Home in 1930: Manhattan, New York, New York
View Map
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's name: Lena

Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace: View image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Perri 60
Lena Perri 48
Humbert Perri 22
Alfred Perri 21
Salvatore Perri 19
Anna Perri 17
Thomas Perri 11

and you confirmed that this 1930 census is correct; now I found the 1910 census:


1910 United States Federal Census
about John Perri
Name: John Perri
Age in 1910: 47
[42]
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
[abt 1868]

Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Spouse's name: Lena
Home in 1910: Manhattan Ward 12, New York, New York
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Gender: Male
Year of Immigration: 1890
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Perri 47
[42]
Lena Perri 28
Antonetta Perri 6
Joseph Perri 5
Umberto Perri 2 ( Humbert)
Frederick Perri 8/12 ( Alfred)


so this is the correct family, and for to know more need of to find the declaration of intent..
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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby CompGeekJTP » 24 Apr 2010, 15:10

He was born around 1870, give or take a few years. we have conflicting information. His gravestone says John Perri. His prayer card says John Perri. But maybe his legal last name was Perry. Or maybe he never filed for Social Security.

I hired one of the experts from Ancestry.com to do some research, so I am hoping she can come up with something.

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Re: Need help obtaining a death certificate

Postby CompGeekJTP » 15 Jul 2010, 16:30

the good news is that I was able to go to a Family History Center near me and locate the number of Giovanni's death certificate. I ordered it on Monday so hopefully this will finally help me get this record.


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