Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Oratin

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Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Oratin

Postby sandytatro » 31 May 2010, 22:33

Hi,
I'm looking for any information anyone can give me about my ancestors, or how to go about locating information on them.

My great grandparents both came to Canada from Italy. I have very limited information.

My great grandfather, Guglielmo Elia, was born 1877 in Alanno, Abruzzo, Italy. His parents were Addolerata Monacelli, and Lorenzo Elia. Guglielmo had three brothers, and a sister, from what I have heard. I only know of one of his brothers names, Pierino.

My great grandmother, was born Maria Nicoletta Secondo in Oratino, Molese, Italy, but went by the name Nicolina. There is debate as to whether her last name was Secondo, or Seconda by different members of the family. Her father was Antonio Secondo, and her mother was Carolina Dia Felicie. I know of one brother, named Constantino.

If anyone can help me out in any way, I would really appreciate it.
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby Squigy » 01 Jun 2010, 04:38

sandytatro wrote:Hi,
I'm looking for any information anyone can give me about my ancestors, or how to go about locating information on them.

My great grandparents both came to Canada from Italy. I have very limited information.

My great grandfather, Guglielmo Elia, was born 1877 in Alanno, Abruzzo, Italy. His parents were Addolerata Monacelli, and Lorenzo Elia. Guglielmo had three brothers, and a sister, from what I have heard. I only know of one of his brothers names, Pierino.

My great grandmother, was born Maria Nicoletta Secondo in Oratino, Molese, Italy, but went by the name Nicolina. There is debate as to whether her last name was Secondo, or Seconda by different members of the family. Her father was Antonio Secondo, and her mother was Carolina Dia Felicie. I know of one brother, named Constantino.

If anyone can help me out in any way, I would really appreciate it.


Welcome, Sandy!

The Family History Library in Salt Lake City has civil registration records for both Oratino, and Alanno on microfilm. These can be ordered for a small fee ($5.00) at your local FHC (Family History Center). You can find one near you with this link:

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library ... et_fhc.asp
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby sandytatro » 01 Jun 2010, 16:20

Thank you so much! Ancestry.com was useless with records from those areas in Italy, and I was trying through many google searches to see if there was a place online where I could view or order records without having to actually speak or write in Italian. I basically found nothing helpful. I had no idea Family History Library would have Italian records, I do believe there is one right in town where I live, so thanks again.
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby JohnArmellino » 02 Jun 2010, 21:47

I believe that the following marriage record is that of your Great Great Grandparents:

Antonio Secondo, age 26, son of Costanzo Secondo and Nicoletta Iafelice, and Carolina Iafelice, age 25, daughter of Felice Iafelice and Maria Filomena del Greco, were married in Oratino, Campobasso, Molise, Regno d'Italia, on 18 DEC 1894. Source: Oratino (Campobasso). Ufficio dello Stato Civile, Registri dello Stato Civile, 1809-1910, FHL INTL Film 1761637/MATRIMONI 1894/Parte I/Numero 11, 18 DEC 1894.

The Secondo line:

Costanzo Secondo was born 20 JAN 1836 in Oratino, the son of Domenico Secondo and Lucia Maria Macoretta. Source: Oratino (Campobasso). Ufficio dello Stato Civile, Registri dello Stato Civile, 1809-1910, FHL INTL Film 1577383/PROCESSETTI 1858/Numero 14/foglio 1, 12 JUL 1858.

Domenico Secondo was born 01 APR 1800 in Oratino, the son of Antonio Secondo and Maria Iafelice. Source: Oratino (Campobasso). Ufficio dello Stato Civile, Registri dello Stato Civile, 1809-1910, FHL INTL Film 1577205/PROCESSETTI 1825/N. 1/foglio 1, 1 OCT 1824.

The spelling of the surname Secondo appears to be consistent throughout all of the records cited above.

The Iafelice line:

According to the marriage record cited above, Carolina Iafelice was born in San Polo Matese, Isernia, Molise, Regno d'Italia. [Note that San Polo Matese is now located in the province of Campobasso.] However, three of her siblings (one older and two younger) were born in Oratino. Furthermore, the surname Iafelice is most commonly found in Oratino while it is not found at all in San Polo Matese. I think that it's safe to assume that this family did not originate in San Polo Matese but in all likelihood Oratino.

Carolina's mother was Maria Filomena del Greco. Her marriage to Felice Iafelice is not found in the marriage records of Oratino. The surname del Greco is most commonly found in Busso (a town not far from Oratino). Since a couple most often married in the bride's town, you might want to check the marriage records of Busso. It's a bit of a shot in the dark, but I think worth the effort. Also check the pubblicazioni for Oratino. If Felice Iafelice was in fact born there, then the marriage banns would have been published there. Luckily, all of these records have been filmed by the LDS.

You don't say where you live. If you're anywhere near Toms River, New Jersey, I have a lot of these films on permanent loan.
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby sandytatro » 03 Jun 2010, 03:13

Hi John,

Unfortunately, I'm not near there, I live in Ontario, Canada. Thank you for all the information. It does seem to be my family, though I am confused as the marriage says 1894, and my great grandmother was born in 1890, according to documents that one of my family members has. I will definitely have to head to the Family History Library and order these records for myself!
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby JohnArmellino » 03 Jun 2010, 04:35

As to the discrepancy in the dates, what kind of document states that she was born in 1890? Secondary documents can be notoriously inaccurate with respect to dates. Also, a couple's civil marriage sometimes post-dates their church ceremony. I would be surprised if this is not your family. I have canvassed all of the Oratino marriages and this is the only one that matches your facts.

If you are interested, I have some additional branches and or generations in my database. I can post the data here if you'd like or send you a sourced Ahnentafel Chart via e-mail. If this is the right family, your Macoretta/Sergnese and di Chiocchio/Borsella branches originated in Castropignano (CB) and your Libertone/Scaroina branch originated in Campobasso (CB).

I think you will find the FHL films very rewarding.
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby wandasullivan » 29 Jul 2010, 13:55

My name is Wanda and I live in Melbourne, Australia. This evening for no apparent reason at all, I decided to open up a document I started preparing a few years ago and the names Laurenzo Elia m. Addolorata Monacelli just stared back at me, so I decided to do another web search on the surname "Elia" as to date I have had little/no luck finding out anything about this surname.
I couldn't believe my eyes when I actually saw the names of my/our great-grandparents - Addolerata Monacelli, and Lorenzo Elia - staring at me again. My grandmother - Angela Rosaria Elia (b. Alanno, Abruzzo, Italy - 28.4.1880 – d. Abbateggio 29.12.1964) was their daughter and obviously your grandfather, Guglielmo Elia's sister.
My father was Lorenzo Castellucci (named after his grandfather). Thankfully (cross-fingers!) his ownly remaining sibling, Zia Dora (named after her grandmother), is an absolute font of knowledge (and still very much on the ball!) so I promise to "pick her brains" about all of this and get back to you as soon as I can.
FYI: My grandmother (your great Aunt) married a Federico Castellucci and moved to a village called Abbateggio (Pescara, Abbruzzo). They had 6 children - the 1st son, Reale, remained/died in Italy; the 2nd daughter - Madalena migrated to Ontario, Canada in the 1950s(?) with her husband and adult children, the 3rd son - Erminio migrated/married/lived/died in South Africa, and the younger three siblings, my father and his two younger siblings - Santino and Dora - migrated to Australia.
My apologies for the lengthy reply but it can't hurt to exchange this type of information.
I look forward to hearing back from you.
Wanda
PS have you tried checking for records via http://www.ellisisland.org ?, I've found it quite good.
PPS here goes nothing! I've never used a forum so I'm a bit nervous!!!
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby sandytatro » 29 Jul 2010, 20:34

Hi Wanda! I'm so glad you found my post, this is amazing! No one in my family has been able to answer anything about what happened to Guglielmo's sister, or the other brother who did not come to Canada. Since this post, I have found a bit of information on one of his other brothers, I only knew of Pierino when I posted. Pasquale also came to Canada, and he brought along his wife and children. His wife's name was Sofia Castellucci! So, I wonder if they is a relation between Federico and Sofia!

Guglielmo was actually my great-grandfather, making Lorenzo my great-great grandfather. I also found it very hard to find information on the Elia surname, so I am really excited that you happened to search again and find my post! :)

I have checked the Ellis Island records, that is where I found the information about Pierino and Pasquale coming to Canada. Strangely, I can find nothing of Guglielmo, or my great-grandmother Nicolina, who did not meet and marry until after they moved to Canada. It doesn't make sense, as they should have come through there, but I have searched various spellings and come up with nothing. Thank you for the information, and I would be happy for any more that you have or can find out! I would also be happy to answer any questions you might have and pass some things along to you. If you'd rather continue this over email instead of in the forum, my email address is sandytatro@gmail.com :) If you have any photos of your grandmother, I would love to see some! I have some of my great-grandfather scanned if you would like to see them!
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby sandytatro » 29 Jul 2010, 22:09

I just remembered that I had a record for Sofia Castellucci that listed her parents names! So this might answer if they were related. Her father was listed as Erminio Castellucci, and her mother was listed as Magdlena D'Pierdiaucci (to the best of my reading abilities, it was hard to make out).

I'm not sure if you know the names of Federico's parents, but I noticed you mentioned your father had a brother named Erminio, and a sister Madalena, so it seems quite likely those names were passed down. :)
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby sandytatro » 29 Jul 2010, 22:20

John, I could have sworn I had replied to your offer to send me the information by email! I just noticed with Wanda's reply that I did not. I would love whatever information you can give me. Despite the date discrepancies, I think this is probably the correct family line, it all seems to line up otherwise. My email address is sandytatro@gmail.com, and I would happy to receive anything you have on that line, it would be most appreciated :) I still have no gotten the chance to get the family history library myself, but plan to try in the next week or two.

There is a possibility that she was born later than 1890 I suppose - that was the date given to me by my cousin, June 29th, 1890, whom had found it on a document that her mother (Nicolina's daughter), had from her personal belongings. I am not sure what the document was, but that was what her daughter knew as her year of birth. In June of 1907, when she was married, she stated she was 18, but that also would not add up to the date my cousin gave me, which would have made her 17. I really do not think she was born in or after 1894 though, the year that her parents are registered as being married. That would have made her only 13 when she was married, and I really doubt that she was that young, especially since she came to Canada all by herself, and didn't meet my great-grandfather until she was here.
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby JohnArmellino » 31 Jul 2010, 00:33

Sandy – I took a look at the Oratino birth records last night and could not find a birth record for Maria Nicoletta Secondo in 1890. I also did a quick index search for the years 1882-1905 and could not find a birth record for Maria Nicoletta Secondo in that period either. However, I did find two birth records wherein Antonio Secondo was the father. The later record was for Pasquale Secondo, born in 1898, the son of Antonio Secondo and Carolina Iafelice. The earlier record was more interesting: Costanzo Antonio Secondo was born in 1892 to Antonio Secondo and a woman who declined to be named. I wonder if the father is the same Antonio Secondo and the unnamed woman might have been Carolina Iafelice? There is some circumstantial evidence. First, besides these two records, there is no other Antonio Secondo listed as father on any birth records during the relevant period nor did any other Antonio Secondo marry during the relevant period. Secondly, the given names of Antonio Secondo’s parents were Costanzo and Nicoletta --- if Maria Nicoletta was born circa 1890 and Costanzo Antonio was born in 1892, then it seems that these names conform to the Italian naming tradition.

Based on the above-mentioned records, I believe that there is a possibility that Antonio Secondo and Carolina Iafelice may have had children prior to their marriage in 1894. Of course, that’s just a theory without more facts. I will do some more research next week and hopefully find info that will shed some light on this mystery.

I will send you an Ahnentafel and Pedigree charts for your Secondo line. If you have any questions, send me a message.
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby ascione_m » 29 Oct 2010, 06:43

Hello everyone... first post here

Sandy I feel like I have been following you. I've run across your tree on Ancestry.com.

Quick background, my girlfriend has got me into looking into my ancestry (hers is so exciting since she seems to have been able to go back to about 900 AD). Anyway, I just started looking into mine in the last week.

So I've encountered your tree Sandy because Pasquale and Sofia (Castellucci) Elia are my great-grandparents.. It's late now and I am going to have to re-read this thread to get my head around it, but I'm glad I found it lol

Mark
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby BarryC » 29 Oct 2010, 17:24

I have a lot of the Alanno films at my local FHC. I'll have a look when I am there next week.
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby sandytatro » 31 Oct 2010, 20:57

ascione_m wrote:Hello everyone... first post here

Sandy I feel like I have been following you. I've run across your tree on <a href="http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-3166187-10456885" TARGET="_blank">Ancestry.com</a>.

Quick background, my girlfriend has got me into looking into my ancestry (hers is so exciting since she seems to have been able to go back to about 900 AD). Anyway, I just started looking into mine in the last week.

So I've encountered your tree Sandy because Pasquale and Sofia (Castellucci) Elia are my great-grandparents.. It's late now and I am going to have to re-read this thread to get my head around it, but I'm glad I found it lol

Mark


Hi Mark!

I know, it's a lot to absorb and wrap your head around. Since Pasquale's brother was my great-grandfather, I believe that makes us third cousins! It's really crazy, when I started doing this family tree stuff about 6 months ago, I could find very little information on the Elia side of my family, even though I was fairly quickly able to find information on all of the other branches, including other family trees on ancestry.com, but no tree that matched up for the Elia's. I really thought posting on this forum wasn't going to help much either, but apparently I was wrong, since it seems to be reconnecting the various branches of the Elia family!

I haven't had a lot of time for family tree research or ancestry.com recently, but glad you found my tree on there as well! I think it is set to private now, but if you'd like access, send me a message on there from your account and I can add it so you can view it.

I'm not sure if Wanda, who posted above, has contacted you yet, but if not, I'm sure both she, I, and the other family we have gotten in contact with or discovered, would love to share information, and find out more about your side of the family, My email address is sandytatro@gmail.com if you'd like to get in touch off the site, and I can pass along everyone else's info to you from there.

Hope to hear from you!
~ Sandy
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Re: Elia/Monacelli in Alanno & Secondo/Dia Felicie in Or

Postby sandytatro » 31 Oct 2010, 20:58

BarryC wrote:I have a lot of the Alanno films at my local FHC. I'll have a look when I am there next week.


Thank you Barry, that would be great. My local one is only open 2 days a week, and has really odd hours, and I have not managed to even stop in and look into if I can order them or not.
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