Birth's before Marriage?

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jamiecapaldi
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Birth's before Marriage?

Postby jamiecapaldi » 01 Jul 2010, 12:05

My GGGrandparents had their first child in 1884, and then followed with another 3 more Children before marrying in 1894, Cassino, Italy.
10 Years of having Children before marrying seems not very Catholic to me?
Does anybody have any information on this topic please?
NAMES: Capaldi-Tedesco-Tamilio-Minchella-Verrecchia-Tomasso-Franchitto-Innelli-Arpino-Caringi-Colacicco-Macari-Pinchera-Salera-D'Orazio-Ambrosino-Di Mambro-Sigliocolo-Masello
PLACES: Cassino- UK, USA, Ireland, Canada & Australia
http://www.cassino-families.co.uk

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maestra36
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Re: Birth's before Marriage?

Postby maestra36 » 01 Jul 2010, 12:56

After the unification of Italy-which took some 10 years to complete-the civil state did not recognize church marriages which took place. So if the couple married in the church, but had not had a civil ceremony, their children were considered illegitimate in the eyes of the civil state and, until they married in a civil ceremony, were not considered legitimate in the eyes of the law. So it is possible this couple had had a church wedding long before they had the civil one.

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maestra36
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Re: Birth's before Marriage?

Postby maestra36 » 01 Jul 2010, 12:57

I should add, that I am assuming, that the 1894 marriage was a civil one.

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Re: Birth's before Marriage?

Postby johnnyonthespot » 01 Jul 2010, 13:39

Peg,

It is a good point, but the timing seems a bit off to me as their first child was born nearly 20 years after unification (or, ten years after the completion of unification as noted). It seems unlikely that they entered into a church-recognized marriage before 1865/1875 and then did not have any children until 1884, don't you agree?

Nevertheless, it was still a wishy-washy period in Italian history so there may very well be an explanation which does not include illegimatcy.
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Re: Birth's before Marriage?

Postby Italysearcher » 01 Jul 2010, 14:09

In many areas not marrying civilly was a form of protest. I have seen it a lot mostly in the former Papal States where they went as far as to not name the mother on a child's birth record if the parents weren't married civilly. Check out Ceccano for example. Probably 75% of births there after 1870 had no mother named.
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maestra36
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Re: Birth's before Marriage?

Postby maestra36 » 01 Jul 2010, 18:18

The only point I was trying to make, Carmine, was that the couple probably had a church marriage prior to the birth of their children, and that that marriage was not recognized by the civil state. The 1894 marriage was probably a civil one and not a church marriage. And, as Ann has pointed out above, in many areas of Italy, not marrying civilly was a form of protest. I shouldn't have mentioned the 10 year unification process in my above post, as mentioning that was obviously misleading. I wasn't saying they entered into a church marriage before the unification process.

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Re: Birth's before Marriage?

Postby jamiecapaldi » 05 Jul 2010, 07:54

Thank you all for your replies.
I do not know if it was a civil marriage or Church? I got the information from my Ggrandfathers Birth certificate.

I think they might have had a church wedding prior to their civil according to the following record i found.
Can anyone please make out if it would be 1885 or 1890?
NAMES: Capaldi-Tedesco-Tamilio-Minchella-Verrecchia-Tomasso-Franchitto-Innelli-Arpino-Caringi-Colacicco-Macari-Pinchera-Salera-D'Orazio-Ambrosino-Di Mambro-Sigliocolo-Masello
PLACES: Cassino- UK, USA, Ireland, Canada & Australia
http://www.cassino-families.co.uk

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Re: Birth's before Marriage?

Postby maestra36 » 05 Jul 2010, 08:21

Looks to me that the census is saying that they had 26 years years of completed marriage, meaning they married in 1885.

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Re: Birth's before Marriage?

Postby jamiecapaldi » 05 Jul 2010, 08:26

Thanks, so you would be correct with the Church marriage before the Civil in 1894!
They married in Cassino in 1894, do you think they would have married in the same place, in 1885?
NAMES: Capaldi-Tedesco-Tamilio-Minchella-Verrecchia-Tomasso-Franchitto-Innelli-Arpino-Caringi-Colacicco-Macari-Pinchera-Salera-D'Orazio-Ambrosino-Di Mambro-Sigliocolo-Masello
PLACES: Cassino- UK, USA, Ireland, Canada & Australia
http://www.cassino-families.co.uk

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Re: Birth's before Marriage?

Postby maestra36 » 05 Jul 2010, 08:31

There is no way of telling for sure, but I think Cassino would be a good starting point.

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Re: Birth's before Marriage?

Postby jamiecapaldi » 05 Jul 2010, 08:45

Thank you!
NAMES: Capaldi-Tedesco-Tamilio-Minchella-Verrecchia-Tomasso-Franchitto-Innelli-Arpino-Caringi-Colacicco-Macari-Pinchera-Salera-D'Orazio-Ambrosino-Di Mambro-Sigliocolo-Masello
PLACES: Cassino- UK, USA, Ireland, Canada & Australia
http://www.cassino-families.co.uk


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