Ermengarda vs Argentina

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KMaryP
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Ermengarda vs Argentina

Postby KMaryP » 06 Aug 2010, 02:46

My grandmother's birth certificate shows her mother's name as Argentina Mansuetti. I found a ship manifest showing an Ermengarda Mansueti-Cupelli that I'm pretty certain is her (the date, husband's name, and destination city are correct). The first name is bugging me though. Is Argentina a translation for Ermengarda?

The other Italian names are pretty obvious to translate: Giovanni/John, Giuseppe/Joseph, Luigi/Louis, etc. I just can't get Argentina out of Ermengarda!

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Re: Ermengarda vs Argentina

Postby Squigy » 07 Aug 2010, 07:51

KMaryP wrote:My grandmother's birth certificate shows her mother's name as Argentina Mansuetti. I found a ship manifest showing an Ermengarda Mansueti-Cupelli that I'm pretty certain is her (the date, husband's name, and destination city are correct). The first name is bugging me though. Is Argentina a translation for Ermengarda?

The other Italian names are pretty obvious to translate: Giovanni/John, Giuseppe/Joseph, Luigi/Louis, etc. I just can't get Argentina out of Ermengarda!


I've never heard of either of these names, but I would think Ermengarda (or something similar) is more likely.

Italians didn't always follow "the rules" when it came to Americanizing names, and even less with stranger names.

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Re: Ermengarda vs Argentina

Postby KMaryP » 07 Aug 2010, 14:19

Thank you, Squigy!

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Re: Ermengarda vs Argentina

Postby suanj » 07 Aug 2010, 16:57

It is possible that your Ermengarda changed the first name in USA, because is a bit difficult the pronounce of Ermengarda?

Ermengarda currently is a rare first name, but more popular in old past...

because was the first name of Ermengarda Princess, with bad destiny( d. 20 march 821) but she so lovely...!
http://www.bresciamusei.com/pages/it_ermengarda.aspx
( sorry in italian) and on Ermengarda death also the poem of very famous italian poet
http://www.fidicaro.net/2009/11/morte-d ... o-manzoni/

Ermengarda: http://bresciamusei.mitric.net/content/ ... garda1.jpg
http://www1.popolis.it/abbazia/EP/UpLoa ... ngarda.jpg
http://www.cannibali.it/leggi.php?i=5024&c=7
Ermengarda is a wonderful first name ...
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Re: Ermengarda vs Argentina

Postby KMaryP » 07 Aug 2010, 17:40

suanj,

Thank you for your research. I cannot read Italian, but my great-grandmother Ermengarda also had a bad destiny - she died before she reached the age of 22. Her cause of death is still unknown to me.

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Re: Ermengarda vs Argentina

Postby suanj » 07 Aug 2010, 18:54

oh, really...? but in this ship's manifest Ermengarda was 28 old...
New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Ermengarda Mansueti-Cupelli
Name: Ermengarda Mansueti-Cupelli
Arrival Date: 15 Oct 1916
Birth Year: abt 1888
Birth Location: Rome, Italy
Birth Location Other: patrvia (Patrica)
Age: 28

Gender: Female
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian (South) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Duca D Aosta


joining at husband Orazio Cupelli/Copelli in Ambridge, Beaver, PA, USA...
Orazio is widowed in 1920.... :(

1920 United States Federal Census
about Orazio Cappoli
Name: Orazio Cappoli
[Orario Cappoli] ( Cupelli?)
Home in 1920: Ambridge Ward 2, Beaver, Pennsylvania
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1886

Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Boarder
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Marital Status: Widowed
[Single]
Race: White
Sex: Male
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Julius Buffalini 36
Asenta Buffalini 33
Tony Buffalini 12
Domenic Buffalini 10
Elvidio Buffalini 4
[4 3/12]
Charles Buffalini 0
[7/12]
Mary Buffalini 64
Pietro Masi 23
Orazio Cappoli 34
America Cappoli 2
[2 5/12]
[2 6/12]

if this census is right, Ermengarda/Argentina died at birthchild time .. or so...
in WWI draft registration card Orazio next of kin A... Bufalini
World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
about Orazio Capelli
Name: Orazio Capelli
County: Beaver
State: Pennsylvania
Birth Date: 7 Jan 1885

Race: White
FHL Roll Number: 1852810
DraftBoard: 1

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4482/orazio.jpg
no wife mention
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Re: Ermengarda vs Argentina

Postby KMaryP » 07 Aug 2010, 19:24

Wow, you are right! Math isn't one of my strong points. That really makes me wonder if there were other children born before she came over. It seems odd that her first child would have been born when she was 29. Unless, her husband left for the US shortly after they married. I don't believe I've found her husband's ship manifest yet. I thought I did, but I just noticed his final destination is listed as NY rather than Ambridge or any town in that area of Pennsylvania, so I think I have the wrong Orazio Cupelli/Copelli/Capelli/Capella.

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Re: Ermengarda vs Argentina

Postby suanj » 07 Aug 2010, 19:59

KMaryP wrote:Wow, you are right! Math isn't one of my strong points. That really makes me wonder if there were other children born before she came over. It seems odd that her first child would have been born when she was 29. Unless, her husband left for the US shortly after they married. I don't believe I've found her husband's ship manifest yet. I thought I did, but I just noticed his final destination is listed as NY rather than Ambridge or any town in that area of Pennsylvania, so I think I have the wrong Orazio Cupelli/Copelli/Capelli/Capella.

Orazio Copelli was born in Ceccano town.. near Patrica ( Patrica is in north-west of Ceccano)
http://maps.google.it/maps?hl=it&q=patr ... a=N&tab=wl
the first Orazio crossed travel that I found is in 1909:

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Orazio Copelli
Name: Orazio Copelli
Arrival Date: 12 Apr 1909
Birth Year: abt 1885
Birth Location: Roma
Birth Location Other: cerrano (Ceccano)
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian (South) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Batavia
Search Ship Database: Search the Batavia in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database

no doubts that is the right Orazio, because:

U.S. World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942
about Orazio Copelli
Name: Orazio Copelli
Birth Date: 7 Jan 1885
Birth Place: Caccano
Residence: Beaver, Pennsylvania
Roll: WW2_2243944

he remarried at pauline as appearing in 1930 census:

1930 United States Federal Census
about Orazio Copello
Name: Orazio Copello
Home in 1930: Ambridge, Beaver, Pennsylvania
View Map
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's name: Pauline
Race: White
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace: View image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Orazio Copello 44
Pauline Copello 53
Mary Copello 13
Frank Lucci 24


the little Mary is America, daughter of Ermengarda...

another trip:
New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Oranio Copelli
Name: Oranio Copelli
Arrival Date: 22 Jul 1913
Birth Year: abt 1885
Birth Location: Italy
Birth Location Other: roma
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian (South) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Ancona

married, wife Maria in Ceccano, (Maybe he called Ermengarda Maria; no doubt that is the right Orazio), final destination Endicott, NY; joining at brother in law Vincenzo Masi ; already in USA (Valden?)from 1910/2..
so from 1913 to 1916 Orazio moved in Beaver Co, PA, where Ermengarda joined in 1916... the little America was born abt in 1917.. so Ermengarda had the baby and died very soon after the birthchild...
your suggestions?
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Re: Ermengarda vs Argentina

Postby suanj » 07 Aug 2010, 20:06

Orazio Copelli trip of 1910:

First Name: Orazio
Last Name: Copelli
Ethnicity: Italy
Last Place of Residence: Ceccauo, Rome
Date of Arrival: Nov 11, 1910
Age at Arrival: 24 Gender: M Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Berlin
Port of Departure: Naples
Manifest Line Number: 0012



pag 1
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0012
wife Mansueti in Ceccano ...

pag 2
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0012
joining at Domenico brother in Walden/Valden
maybe the right surname spelling is Capelli... maybe...
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Re: Ermengarda vs Argentina

Postby KMaryP » 07 Aug 2010, 20:38

I have not seen the 1913 manifest before. Thank you! I think I found something...sometimes the lines on the manifest don't line up perfectly. I don't think wife is Maria, but the line right above it says wife "Argen", maybe Argentina?

So Orazio did go to NY first. That is interesting. I'm glad that for whatever reason he decided to move to Ambridge or else I would never have been born!

And yes, he remarried Pauline who had an older child (son) from a previous marriage. I know nothing about him, his name, his age, nothing. He'll be hard to track down.

Thank you again, suanj.

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Re: Ermengarda vs Argentina

Postby suanj » 08 Aug 2010, 05:40

you are right, in the correct line: wife Argen in Ceccano(by Orazio arrival of 1913).. sorry

so Ermengarda was born with this first name but was called Argentina....
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