Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisenza.

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jpetrelli
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Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisenza.

Postby jpetrelli » 24 Sep 2010, 22:58

I am looking for information on my GGM and GGF Louis Romano and Marietta Crisenza (b. abt. 1860). I have not found any direct information about either, but know the following:
-They had two sons, Salvatore (b. 1879, Arrival to US - 1893) and Andrew Alfred (b. 1890, Arrival to US - 1909), both sons were born in Palermo, Palermo, Sicilia, Italy.
-Family stories say that Louis traveled with his family to the US, but did not stay and returned to Italy. We have been told that Louis held a position of authority associated with the Naples Port.

I have not been able to locate any information about Louis or Marietta. I appreciate any suggestions or input.

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pink67
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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby pink67 » 27 Sep 2010, 14:53

Hi Jpetrelli :D

Found a few records that maybe are related to your ancestors on the site:

http://beta.familysearch.org/

New York Marriages, 1686-1980

Groom's Name Luigi Romano
Groom's Birth Date
Groom's Birthplace
Groom's Age
Bride's Name Maria Crisenza
Bride's Birth Date
Bride's Birthplace
Bride's Age
Marriage Date 07 Sep 1895 :?:
Marriage Place Manhattan, New York, New York
Groom's Father's Name Vincenzo
Groom's Mother's Name Vincenza
Bride's Father's Name Salvatore
Bride's Mother's Name Antonnina Napoli
Groom's Race
Groom's Marital Status
Groom's Previous Wife's Name
Bride's Race
Bride's Marital Status
Bride's Previous Husband's Name
Indexing Project (Batch) Number M00136-7
System Origin New_York-ODM
Source Film Number 1493447
Reference Number


Italy Births and Baptisms, 1806-1900

Name Maria Calogera Crisenza
Gender Female
Baptism/Christening Date
Baptism/Christening Place
Birth Date 30 Oct 1861
Birthplace Bisacquino, Palermo, Italy
Death Date
Name Note
Race
Father's Name Salvatore Crisenza
Father's Birthplace
Father's Age
Mother's Name Antonina Napoli
Mother's Birthplace
Mother's Age
Indexing Project (Batch) Number I01329-9
System Origin Italy-EASy
Source Film Number 1350588
Reference Number p 258 no 258

They had two sons, Salvatore (b. 1879, Arrival to US - 1893)


Possible marriage dates for son Salvatore?

New York Marriages, 1686-1980

Groom's Name Salvatore C. Romano
Groom's Birth Date 1880
Groom's Birthplace
Groom's Age 30
Bride's Name Maria T. S. Cappellino
Bride's Birth Date 1891
Bride's Birthplace
Bride's Age 19
Marriage Date 27 Dec 1910
Marriage Place Monroe, New York
Groom's Father's Name Louis Romano
Groom's Mother's Name Maria Crisenza

Bride's Father's Name Colagairo Cappellino
Bride's Mother's Name Sarafina Scrra
Groom's Race
Groom's Marital Status
Groom's Previous Wife's Name
Bride's Race
Bride's Marital Status
Bride's Previous Husband's Name
Indexing Project (Batch) Number I00304-9
System Origin New York-EASy
Source Film Number 831340
Reference Number Vol 1 p 383

are these records correct for your ancestors?

Laura :D

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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby pink67 » 27 Sep 2010, 15:06

Possible 1910 census for son Salvatore?

1910 United States Federal Census
about Salvatore C Romano
Name: Salvatore C Romano
[Salvatore C Komano]
Age in 1910: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Home in 1910: Rochester Ward 16, Monroe, New York
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Gender: Male
Year of Immigration: 1893
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Salvatore C Romano 30 head, single, born in IT, immigr. year 1893, occupation Phisician
Matteo Teresi 35 lodger
Antonietta Teresi 25 lodger

And WW1 draft registration card:

World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
about Salvatore Crisenza Romano
Name: Salvatore Crisenza Romano
City: Rochester
County: Monroe
State: New York
Birth Date: 6 Jan 1879
Race: White
FHL Roll Number: 1818809
DraftBoard: 6

no place of birth is listed....

Laura
Laura

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pink67
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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby pink67 » 27 Sep 2010, 15:12

Italy Births and Baptisms, 1806-1900

Name Maria Calogera Crisenza
Gender Female
Baptism/Christening Date
Baptism/Christening Place
Birth Date 30 Oct 1861
Birthplace Bisacquino, Palermo, Italy
Death Date
Name Note
Race
Father's Name Salvatore Crisenza
Father's Birthplace
Father's Age
Mother's Name Antonina Napoli
Mother's Birthplace
Mother's Age
Indexing Project (Batch) Number I01329-9
System Origin Italy-EASy
Source Film Number 1350588
Reference Number p 258 no 258

If this record belongs to your ancestor Marietta Crisenza, then this is the image of the Baptism Act (in Latin) from the same site: (act n. 279), Church of San Giovanni Battista - Bisaquino - Palermo

http://postimage.org/image/tb8sp85g/

Laura

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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby jpetrelli » 27 Sep 2010, 16:28

Laura,

This is fabulous! All of the information seems to match my records. I will begin looking further into this immediately.

I have been searching pretty extensively and other than the 1910 Census for Salvatore did not come across any of this material. I use Ancestry.com and FamilySearch.org (including the beta). Can you walk me through how you found this material since my efforts missed it?

Thank you again. I am very excited about this information.
Researching Surnames:
Petrelli & Fumarola (Martina Franca); Camelio & Traniello (Gaeta); Aramini, Bruno & Guerra (Zagarise); Gusmano/Cusimano & Trapani (Corleone) and Caronna, Crisenza, Napoli & Torretta (Bisacquino)

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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby pink67 » 27 Sep 2010, 16:40

I'm glad I was able to help you.... I'm using the same sites... I found the amrriage records for Louis Romano using the Key Crisenza..

Just in the case that you don't have these records, if you need the images I can post them for you:

U.S. Passport Applications, 1795-1925
about Dalvatore C Romano
Name: Dalvatore C Romano
Birth Date: 6 Jan 1879
Birth Place: Italy
Residence: Rochester, New York
Passport Issue Date: 24 Apr 1920
Father Name: Louis Romano (deceased)
Father's Birth Location: Italy
Father's Residence: Dead
Passport Includes a Photo: Y
Source: Passport Applications, January 2, 1906 - March 31, 1925 (M1490)

possible 1900 census for salvatore studying at St. Francis college Brooklyn?

1900 United States Federal Census
about Salvado Romano
Name: Salvado Romano
Home in 1900: Brooklyn Ward 10, Kings, New York
Age: 21
Birth Date: Jan 1879
Birthplace: Italy
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relationship to Head of House: Boarder
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page

For marriage records in Rochester:

http://www.cityofrochester.gov/marriagerecords/

Laura

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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby pink67 » 27 Sep 2010, 16:46

Salvatore used the passport for a trip to Italy on 1920, this is the arrival manifest in NYC (returning from Italy)...

July 30, 1920

Salvatore Romano, age 40, married, medician, leaving no relatives in Palermo, going to NY to join his wife Therese Cappellini on 41 Elizabeth sTreet. Place of birth listed is Palermo, he stated he was in the U.S. before from 1894 to 1920

page 1:
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0004

page 2:
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0004

I forgot to tell you that I found the Baptism act in latin searching manually the database using the birth year 1861...

Laura

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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby pink67 » 27 Sep 2010, 17:03

Don't know if you know this great site:

http://www.fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html

I have not checked it for you but it's possible it contains newspaper articles about your ancestors...

1920 United States Federal Census
about Solvatore C Romano
Name: Solvatore C Romano
[Salvatore C Romano]
[Salvatore C. Romans]
Home in 1920: Rochester Ward 16, Monroe, New York
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
[Head]
Spouse's name: Theresa M Romano
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Sex: Male
Home owned: Own
Year of Immigration: 1894
Able to read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Solvatore C Romano 40
Theresa M Romano 28
Marietta S Romano 7
Seraphina M Romano 4
[4 8/12]
Louis W Romano 1
[1 6/12]
Rose Gabriel 13

Laura

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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby jpetrelli » 27 Sep 2010, 17:44

Laura,

This is great material! Thank you so very much.


As an aside, you mentioned www.fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html. I did know about this great resource. Using that site, I discovered Salvatore had an incredibly interesting connection with the Italian Mafia. If you are curious, here is a Washington Post article written about Salvatore and his dealings with Giuseppe Morello, the head of the Morello Crime Family.

This was my most exciting discovery so far. My family had no idea about these events for Uncle Sal.

Thank you again. I welcome your help and advise for finding more about my family!

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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby pink67 » 27 Sep 2010, 19:29

Thank you! and thank you also for sharing the article about the mafia connection with Salvatore... this is interesting... Looks like he had connection also with Ignazio Lupo...

I was wondering about the "meaning" of the 1895 marriage record in Manhattan between Louis Romano and Marietta Crisenza... It must be interesting for you to request the document... Do you know if Salvatore was Louis's son? I noticed that on the military Enlistment for the first world war he is listed as Salvatore Crisenza Romano, not usual for Italy to use both the parent's surnames... Maybe he wasn't Louis's son?

Laura

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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby pink67 » 27 Sep 2010, 20:00

:D This is another "piece" that worth to be studied :lol:

Considering that Maria Crisenza's parents were Salvatore Crisenza and Antonina Napoli, look at this census:

1910 United States Federal Census
about Maria Crisenza
Name: Maria Crisenza
Age in 1910: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Name: Antonina Napoli
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Home in 1910: Manhattan Ward 12, New York, New York
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Year of Immigration: 1894
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Maria Crisenza 42 head, married (one marriage) at the age of 28, mother of 2 children (both living), occupation midwife
Andrew A Crisenza 18 son, born in Italy, immig. year 1894
Antonina Napoli 73 mother, widow, mother of 7 children among whom only 2 living, immigr. year 1891
Carmella Napoli 71 , aunt, widow, no children , immigr. year 1897

page 1:
http://postimage.org/image/2hhxjppes/
page 2
http://postimage.org/image/2hlgw3ffo/


I don't know why she and her son Andrew are listed with the Crisenza lastname... maybe it was more sure for them (Mafia connection also with Louis Romano, living but not present with the family?)

and Antonia Napoli (Marietta's mother) 1892 arrival:

September 8, 1892

Antonia Napoli, age 56, from Bisaquino to NYC:

http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0030

Laura

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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby pink67 » 27 Sep 2010, 20:14

Again from Ancestry.com:

1900 United States Federal Census
about Mary Crisenie
Name: Mary Crisenie
[Mary Criscuci]
Home in 1900: Manhattan, New York, New York
Age: 33
Birth Date: Jul 1866
Birthplace: Italy
Race: White
Gender: Female
Immigration Year: 1892
Relationship to Head of House: Niece
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Mother: number of living children: 0
Mother: How many children: 1
Marriage Year: 1894
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 6
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Millie Naple 50 (Carmela Napoli on the 1910 census, Marietta's aunt), widow, born in Italy, mother of 4 children among whom only 1 living,
Loera Naple 21 daughter, single, immigr. year 1894
Antone Crisenie 63 , female (Antonia Napoli, Marietta's mother) widow, immigr. year 1894, mother of 5 children among whom only 2 living, immigr. year 1891
Mary Crisenie 33 , niece, born in Italy, married since 6 years, one children dead, ommigr. year 1892
Luke Crisenie 25 nephew (Marietta's brother), born in Italy, immigr. year 1892
Salvator Lurardo 19 boarder
Alfred Lurardo 10 boarder

http://postimage.org/image/2hs803g10/

address: 2066 Second Avenue - Manhattan

Laura

edit to add:
From the site:
http://www.italiangen.org/Default.htm


NYC Death Index:

Crisenza Antonina 73 y Feb 8 1914 Certificate Number: 4512 County: Manhattan

Crisenza Luca 64 y May 22 1941 Certificate number: 11247 County: Manhattan

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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby jpetrelli » 27 Sep 2010, 20:27

Laura,

I'm enjoying the dialog and finding it helpful.

In your last post, you said:
I was wondering about the "meaning" of the 1895 marriage record in Manhattan between Louis Romano and Marietta Crisenza...


If I understand your point correctly, you are questioning why Louis and Marietta would have been married in Manhattan, NY and more than 15 years after the birth of their oldest son (who was born in Italy, to add to the confusion of a NY marriage record).

I don't have an answer to explain this but cannot dismiss the likely connection... For example, the name of the bride's mother matches my records.

Perhaps they needed a US marriage license for some reason? I know the family lived in Harlem (confirmed from the Morello articles and research), not far from Manhattan, so that does not seems unreasonable. Having Marietta's hometown, perhaps there is the possibility of accessing her original birth record and hope for margin notation about her marriage. This could shed more light on the matter. Do you have any other thoughts or suggestions on this?


[hr]
You also asked:
Do you know if Salvatore was Louis's son? I noticed that on the military Enlistment for the first world war he is listed as Salvatore Crisenza Romano, not usual for Italy to use both the parent's surnames... Maybe he wasn't Louis's son?


I have always been told Salvatore and my GGF, Andrew Alfred, had the same parents. I found the same passport application for Salvatore that you did, which stated Louis was his father.

I never knew what the "C" stood for in "Salvatore C", but previously assumed it was "Charles", which was the name of his youngest son.

I'm curious to learn more about your thoughts on naming tradition and how else we might explain "Salvatore Crisenza Romano". I know my wife's family has a long history of passing Maternal Surnames on as middle names. However, her ancestry is English.

This is a great discussion. Thank you so much for investing your time and curiosity to help me.

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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby pink67 » 27 Sep 2010, 20:34

Thank you very much... I love this kind of researches :D

I already found the baptism act for Marietta and I noticed there is no marriage annotation:

http://postimage.org/image/tb8sp85g/

From the declarations n the 1900 census looks like the 1895 marriage in NYC was her first marriage... this is why I was wondering about her sons born on 1879 and 1890 in Italy....
On the 1900 census Andrew's lastname is Crisenza.... :?

I'm sure we'll find the reason...

Laura

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Re: Help finding info about Louis Romano and Marietta Crisen

Postby pink67 » 27 Sep 2010, 20:51

I'm curious to learn more about your thoughts on naming tradition and how else we might explain "Salvatore Crisenza Romano". I know my wife's family has a long history of passing Maternal Surnames on as middle names. However, her ancestry is English
.

It's absolutely not common here in Italy to carry the two surnames (father and mother) this is why I'm wondering about the reason for which Salvatore did it... But it seems that in your ancestors family it was pretty common... look at this record for Luca Crisenza, possible Marietta's brother:

U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes, 1791-1992 (Indexed in World Archives Project)
about Luca Napoli Crisenza
Name: Luca Napoli Crisenza
Birth Date: 20 Dec 1875
Birth Place: Italy
Age at event: 28
Court District: New York
Year of Arrival: 1892
Date of Action: 10 Aug 1904

1910 United States Federal Census
about Luza Crisenza
Name: Luza Crisenza
[Luca Crisenza]
Age in 1910: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Spouse's name: Rosa Crisenza
Home in 1910: Manhattan Ward 12, New York, New York
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Gender: Male
Year of Immigration: 1890
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Luza Crisenza 34
Rosa Crisenza 38
Mina Crisenza 3
Salvator W Crisenza 2
Maria Crisenza 4/12
Agostin De Rosa 19
Domenic De Rosa 18
Joseph De Rosa 15
Rosina Cangemi 53
Rose Cangemi 20


World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
about Luca Napoli Crisenza
Name: Luca Napoli Crisenza
City: Bronx
County: Bronx
State: New York
Birth Date: 20 Dec 1875
Race: White
FHL Roll Number: 1753940
DraftBoard: 6

Laura :?:


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