Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change??

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Haztek
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Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change??

Postby Haztek » 09 Jan 2011, 13:39

I have run into a mystery tracing my GGM. Is it possible that a female in the mid 1800s in Italy would change her first name?

1. My GF Giuseppe's birth record shows that he married Angela Cillo on 29 March 1899. He was born in Rotondi and she was from Cervinara.
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2259 ... irth18.jpg

2. My GM Angela's birth record shows that she was born on 20 July 1877 in Cervinara. Her father was Giovanni Cillo, age 36, and her mother was APOLLONIA GIRARDI.
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6042 ... 7birth.jpg

3. Giuseppe and Angela's marriage record of 29 March 1899 states that her father was Giovanni Cillo and her mother was APOLLONIA GIRARDI.
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4918 ... ge1899.jpg

4. A marriage bann for 31 March 1872 shows Giovanni Alessandro Cillo, age 29, from Cervinara and VITTORIA GIRARDI, age 24, from Cervinara.
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/4311 ... ogerar.jpg

5. A birth record shows that on 22 December 1847 VITTORIA GIRARDI was born to Nicola Girardi and Fortunata Cioffi.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5226 ... tim184.jpg

A search from the date of the marriage ban 31March 1872 to the date of the birth of Angela on 20 July 1877 shows no death record for Vittoria or a marriage record for Apollonia.

Angela's death record from 20 December 1946 shows her mothers name as Vittoria. My father was the informant. He left Italy in 1921 when he was 11 and I do not know if he even remembered her.

My cousin remembers that her mother, Anglea's daughter, saying that her GM was Vittoira. My aunt was born in the US in 1922, so I doubt she knew her.

Is it possible that Apollonia and Vittoria are the same person and that she changed her name? It it possible a mistake was made listing her mothers name on the birth record of Angela and it was carried over to Angela's marriage record?

Any clues/guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Jerry
Researching Crispino, Simeone, Cillo, & Girardi in Rotondi & Cervinara. Malvuccio, Lo Grande, Astone, & Munforti in Raccuja.

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Re: Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Jan 2011, 14:55

If the name was legally changed, there would have to be some kind of document, or notation in the margin of one of the records to that effect. A person had to go to a town notary, or to a court, to have a name legally changed. They just couldn't arbitrarily change it.

If the birth record for Angela had her mother's name incorrect, there would have been a notation somewhere to that effect (either a correction in the margin of the birth record made at some later date by a tribunal or court, or a notation at the bottom or side of the marriage record made by a tribunal or court

are there any missing years in the records you are going through?

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Re: Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Jan 2011, 15:10

the other thing is that on one record you have Giovanni Cirillo and on the other you have Giovanni Alessandro Cillo.

are you sure these two individuals are the same person? I realize their estimated years of birth are the same.

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Re: Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change?

Postby Haztek » 09 Jan 2011, 16:02

maestra36:

At this point, I am confused! I don't think there were missing years and no, I am not 100% positive the two Giovanni's are the same person.

Jerry
Researching Crispino, Simeone, Cillo, & Girardi in Rotondi & Cervinara. Malvuccio, Lo Grande, Astone, & Munforti in Raccuja.

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Re: Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Jan 2011, 16:11

The only other scenario I can think of would be if Appollonia was Vittoria's middle name (like a confirmation name perhaps). Maybe people in her town called her by that name instead of her birth name, Vittoria, and that information was recorded by the town clerk when it was orally given to him. The husband was the informant on Angela's birth record and orally gave the town official the name of his wife. So that would account for the name of Appollonia being on Angela's birth record. It doesn't, however, really account for why the name is also Appollonia on the marriage record, but since it was on the birth record, maybe it was just accepted without question for the marriage.
both bride and groom would have had to present copies of their birth records for their marriage

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Re: Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change?

Postby Haztek » 09 Jan 2011, 16:38

If that is the case, then Angela's mother must be Apollonia. It would not be the first time I have found verbal information of the family to be wrong. I have to try to find a birth record for Apollonia and Giovanni.

jerry
Researching Crispino, Simeone, Cillo, & Girardi in Rotondi & Cervinara. Malvuccio, Lo Grande, Astone, & Munforti in Raccuja.

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Re: Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Jan 2011, 16:59

Another thing which might help would be the names of the children of Giuseppe Crispino and Angela Cillo. The second daughter, if they had more than one child of female sex, would more than likely be named for Angela's mother. Naming patterns, in some towns, however, are not always consistent with the Italian naming pattern scheme of first male son named after the paternal grandfather, second male son named after the maternal grandfather, first female child named for the paternal grandmother, second female child named for the maternal grandmother. So studying the naming pattern of a couple's children may or may not clarify the situation.

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Re: Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Jan 2011, 17:06

Death record information is usually the least reliable information. What is disturbing, in this case though, is that you can't find a marriage record for Appollonia. That's why I asked if it was possible that there are missing marriage years. I've found this happen in many towns in which I have done microfilmed research of the state civil records. Sometimes only one year is missing; other times, there are several years of records missing.

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Re: Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change?

Postby Haztek » 09 Jan 2011, 17:08

The first born was a son, Luigi, named after Giuseppe's father.
The second born was a son, my father, was named Gennaro, which is very common name in the family. Giuseppe had a brother Gennaro and his GF was Gennaro.

The only daughter, the third born, was named Estella. I know Giuseppe had a sister named Estella, but that is the only other Estella I have found.

Another factor, is that Giovanni Alessandro Cillo's mother was named Angela, which would have followed the custom of naming the 1st daughter after the father's mother, as you stated.

Thank you very much for all of your input and suggestions.

jerry
Researching Crispino, Simeone, Cillo, & Girardi in Rotondi & Cervinara. Malvuccio, Lo Grande, Astone, & Munforti in Raccuja.

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Re: Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change?

Postby adelfio » 09 Jan 2011, 17:30

Jerry did those records come out of a allegati or individual records you found because if there was a allegati with the marriage publication there might be more info
Marty A
Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia

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Haztek
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Re: Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change?

Postby Haztek » 09 Jan 2011, 17:34

Marty A:

They were individual records from an LDS microfilm.

Jerry
Researching Crispino, Simeone, Cillo, & Girardi in Rotondi & Cervinara. Malvuccio, Lo Grande, Astone, & Munforti in Raccuja.

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Re: Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change?

Postby maestra36 » 09 Jan 2011, 17:45

Normally with just the pubblicazioni or matrimoni you don't get the accompanying documents.. There are no marriage processetti or allegati films for this town. There are atti diversi, but those may or may not contain the types of records for you are searching. I have also found microfilms of atti diversi to be quite difficult to go through, as you get records of all different types, from all over the place, just mixed together.

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Re: Could anyone help w/ this mystery? Possible name change?

Postby adelfio » 09 Jan 2011, 18:11

The other thing Jerry while I been researching my family I did find in my family the same name Salvatore Adelfio and Giuesppa Bondi 3x grandparents another couple exactly the same names around the same year that drove me nuts with dates but I finally fiqured out which ones were which. Peg is right I just checked no Allegati for there.
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Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia

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