GF pretended he was Brazilian!

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aulus
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GF pretended he was Brazilian!

Postby aulus » 09 Feb 2011, 03:41

My lineage is GF -> F -> Me. GF was born in Italy and became naturalized 2 years after my father's birth.

However, because GF was trying to get into the US after the 1924 immigration reforms (which effectively banned Italians from immigrating), he went through Brazil and claimed to have been Brazilian by birth on his naturalization papers. All other papers though (marriage cert, father's birth certs, etc) show him as Italian born in Italy.

According to relatives he wasn't naturalized in Brazil as he was only there briefly (and obviously if he were a naturalized Brazilian he would have to claim Italy as his birthplace).

But does his pretending to be Brazilian somehow count as renouncing Italian citizenship and disqualify me? Or can I just get a certificate of no record from Brazil and everything should be okay?

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johnnyonthespot
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Re: GF pretended he was Brazilian!

Postby johnnyonthespot » 09 Feb 2011, 13:04

I think the problem is that the consulate will look at the naturalization papers and say that they clearly must apply to an entirely different "John Q. Public" - these papers cannot belong to your GF since he was born in Italy and this other guy was born in Brazil...

I wonder if you might be better off taking the same tack: telling USCIS/NARA/etc that these papers are not your GF's because this guy was born in Brazil, and requesting a letter of "No records found" for your Italy-born GF.

I don't know how you get around this otherwise. Naturalization status of the Italian ancestor is the entire crux of a jus sanguinis case; I can't imagine that the consulate would be satisfied with the naturalization documents you have currently.
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aulus
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Re: GF pretended he was Brazilian!

Postby aulus » 09 Feb 2011, 16:50

Thanks for your reply.

Don't I also need a census report in the case of no naturalization? Do you think the consulate would have a problem if USCIS/NARA show "no records found", but the 1940 census lists him as naturalized?

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Re: GF pretended he was Brazilian!

Postby johnnyonthespot » 10 Feb 2011, 16:26

The truth is, you have such a mess and I have no idea how you can work around it.

You certainly cannot get his naturalization file changed to say he was born in, and a citizen of, Italy. Changes of any kind - even simple spelling corrections - are not permitted.

And yet, if you present these papers in which he claims to have been born in Brazil - well, then he was never Italian, was he? That Italian birth certificate you have must be for some other person... Therefore you have no claim to jus sanguinis citizenship.

Many people here can attest to the fact that oral history gleaned from living relatives often turns out to be seriously wrong. Have you considered the possibility that your grandfather really was born in Brazil? Do you have his actual birth certificate yet?
Carmine

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aulus
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Re: GF pretended he was Brazilian!

Postby aulus » 11 Feb 2011, 01:17

I am still waiting on the comune for the birth certificate, but I am 99.99% certain he was born in Italy.

So even if the two have:
- the same name and the same birthday
- a wife with the same name and same birthday, married on the same day
- a son with the same name and same birthday
- lived at the same address in the US

AND I get a statements of "no records" from Brazil that he was not born there and never naturalized...

You still don't think I could convince the consulate they are indeed the same person? :cry:

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aulus
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Re: GF pretended he was Brazilian!

Postby aulus » 19 Feb 2011, 18:31

Update! Heard back from the comune, they found his birth certificate, and it's on its way to me!

However, this is where it gets interesting. The naturalization papers state he was born in 1901 (in Brazil), but on his birth cert, marriage cert, children's birth cert, and census, his birth is listed as 1906 (in Italy).

So should it be easy now to get statement of No Records from NARA/USCIS/etc? I mean, could they figure out that the guy born in brazil in 1901 is the same person as the man born in Italy in 1906? (he used the Portuguese variation of his name in the naturalization papers as well)

However, the death certificate lists his birth as 1901 (in Italy). Should I get this changed before requesting the statement of No Records, to reduce chances they will be able to link the two sets of documents?


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