Going the extra mile

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willperone
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Going the extra mile

Postby willperone » 14 Feb 2011, 05:16

I'm nearing the end of what I can obtain with the LDS microfilms that exist for the towns my family is from. I'm wondering, what's next? What is the next step someone should take to get records from before 1809 or to get more information on the family story in certain towns or other places where it's possible to get records? I've heard of some people being able to access church records in some towns, is this something usual to expect to be able to access or do you need to be a professional genealogist to access these records? Someone at the Family History Center mentioned something about the 'town archives' as well, does anyone know what that is?

Thank you very much,
- Will

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Italysearcher
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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby Italysearcher » 14 Feb 2011, 08:22

What part of Italy?
Ann Tatangelo
http://angelresearch.wordpress.com
ANNOYING THE SAINTS - Stories of my Life in Italy. http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... ly/7731505

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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby willperone » 14 Feb 2011, 16:54

Here is a map of where my ancestors are from:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8& ... 712891&z=8

It's all southen Italian, the towns are:
San Mango su Calore
Zungoli
Castelmezzano
Ottaviano (I never was able to get any records from here)
Maddaloni
Panni
San Sosso Baronia
Pietrapertosa
Pietradefusi

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adelfio
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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby adelfio » 14 Feb 2011, 17:17

Here some reading about records if you havent already read it and explains about italian state records
https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Italy_ ... al_Records

Marty A
Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia

Marty

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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby Italysearcher » 15 Feb 2011, 19:58

Every town is different, has different types of records (other than the civil records which were standard everywhere). Some have detailed census records, personal file cards, family status folders, tax records, etc. But the Stato Civile will not do your research for you in these other records. If the town has a historical archives they will probably do look ups. Parish records also differ, some just have the required BMD others have census records also.
I just learned that the Diocese also has records of interest. One has a list of ALL marriages that took place in the Diocese between persons of different parishes. Its the only one I have found and it goes back to the 1600's but there is no index and they won't search for you. Priceless!
Some priests will search your family tree, but most won't, they will look up records if its not too time consuming, and some won't even let researchers do the search,
Rome has gathered all its parish records in the Vicariato and you can search there with a letter of recommendation from your Bishop.
Ann Tatangelo
http://angelresearch.wordpress.com
ANNOYING THE SAINTS - Stories of my Life in Italy. http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... ly/7731505

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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby willperone » 19 Feb 2011, 18:19

Sorry for the delay, work got a little crazy this week! Thanks for all the information, looks like the real search is just beginning. I read through the LDS website on the church records but I've heard mixed things on whether people have been able to actually get access to them. It's sad that all those records are just sitting in some back room rotting away not even being properly preserved a lot of the time. Do you think it would help if I went to my local priest (in the USA) and got some sort of recommendation to look through the archives (in Italy)? Would it be a better bet to try the Diocese archives or the local town church records? Is there a diocese map in Italy somewhere?

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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby Italysearcher » 20 Feb 2011, 09:19

A letter of presentation from your Bishop wouldn't hurt but for the most I have found that the priest has the final say. He will allow access or he won't.
I have those priests that know me, open the office and leave me to lock up on leaving. Others look up the record while you sit on the other side of the desk and still others have their deacon do the search and don't let you even be there. And then are those in my home town who won't let me search for 'reasons of privacy'. 300 years later!!
Ann Tatangelo
http://angelresearch.wordpress.com
ANNOYING THE SAINTS - Stories of my Life in Italy. http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... ly/7731505

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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby willperone » 20 Feb 2011, 19:10

I've been doing some more research on it and it looks like writing a letter to the local parish priest including an international reply coupon and a 15 euro donation is the best bet. Have you all had success with this approach? And should I include actual euros or some sort of check?

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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby jack182183 » 22 Feb 2011, 01:35

Have you gone through the processitti records on the films? Any births/deaths that occurred before 1809 were included through church extracts of the records. You can sometimes hit a goldmine and go back 2-3 generations of records before civil registration.

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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby willperone » 22 Feb 2011, 06:34

My ancestor was born in 1811, and for the town they do have the processitti records at the LDS (https://familysearch.org/s/catalog/show ... em%2F40546)
If I'm lucky the marriage record of his parents might be there in 1809 or 1810, that's what I'm looking for when my next film order comes in but past that I have nothing. Got my fingers crossed.

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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby jack182183 » 22 Feb 2011, 14:48

The town that came up from that link is Maddaloni. Is that the right town? The catalog shows that the processitti are there, just some are in the FHL vault. Did your ancestor who was born in 1811 get married in that town?

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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby willperone » 22 Feb 2011, 17:19

Sorry, was the wrong town. My ancestry had moved from Pietradefusi to Maddaloni in the mid 1800's. This is the correct town:

https://www.familysearch.org/s/catalog/ ... tem/409871

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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby JohnArmellino » 22 Feb 2011, 21:29

My ancestor was born in 1811, and for the town they do have the processitti records at the LDS...If I'm lucky the marriage record of his parents might be there in 1809 or 1810, that's what I'm looking for when my next film order comes in but past that I have nothing. Got my fingers crossed.


jack182183 makes a very good point. The processetti records contain death extracts (if applicable) for the parents and grandparents of the bride and groom. Through these extracts one can extend his or her lines several generations past the civil records. In the most extreme case (where all parents and grandparents of the bride and groom are deceased), you can get four generations in one set of processetti --- that's 28 ancestors! Of course, its very rare that one is that lucky. Not all of the parents and grandparents might be deceased (unlucky for you, lucky for them). Some towns did not require all the death extracts, but only those of the parents and the paternal grandfather. Some priests, while preparing the extracts, did not include the names of the decedent's parents. Nevertheless, the processetti are a great resource and should be examined carefully. Keep in mind that the processetti for an ancestor's sibling will be just as valuable for that line.
John Armellino

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willperone
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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby willperone » 22 Feb 2011, 21:53

Yea I originally thought the town had the processetti but it turns out the other town that my ancestors immigrated to, Maddaloni had the processetti, not the town of interest, Pietradefusi. But that is good information if I come across them again for another lineage.

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Re: Going the extra mile

Postby jack182183 » 23 Feb 2011, 02:05

Have you seen this?

http://tlngenealogy.blogspot.com/search ... etradefusi

It has the 1809 and 1810 marriages transcribed. Fingers crossed that the relative is there!

Also, if you're willing to spend some money you can order pieces of the Catasto Onciari for the town. It was taken in 1755 and the town is spelled:
Pietra de' Fusi 1755. It was a census of every inhabitant in the town. The problem is the lapse between 1755 and 1809 is large. They are located in the Naples archive. Some have an index so you might be able to find someone to do a search of a surname.


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