Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

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Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby JHagquist » 02 Sep 2011, 01:46

This is my first post here so I'll try to make it short. My mother's side of the family was from Italy, and I'm interested in finding out more about them, or if I happen to have some shirt-tail relatives still in Italy.

Here is the information I have:

My great Grandfather was Ernesto Palmese, born Sept. 1, 1871 in Palma Campania, Italy.
He married Rosa (last name unknown) on July 2, 1891 in Palma Campania, Italy.

They were the on a ship called the "Marcellia" from Naples in 1900.

They had 11 children: Clementine, Quintana, Julia, Rosamond, Teresa, William, Ernest, Rosina, Venice, Florio and Phillip (who was my Grandfather)

They landed in New York but moved to California.

Any info or some direction for me would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
-Josh
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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby Paolo47 » 02 Sep 2011, 11:48

Hello Josh :D

Here is a manifest for you with ggrandfather Ernesto and daughter Clementine
coming back from Italy to see wife Rosa Cassese(sp)

Ernesto Palmese
Arrival Date: 2 Dec 1904
Birth Year: abt 1871
Age:33
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality:
Italian (South) (Italian)
Port of Departure: Napoli
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Citta di Napoli
http://postimage.org/image/2fr38koro/

Also, the ship Ernesto and Rose came to New York on in 1900 could have been the Massilia
which does not agree with any of their naturalization papers.
First Name: Ernesto
Last Name: Palmese
Ethnicity: Italy, Italian
Last Place of Residence: Palma C.
Date of Arrival: May 16, 1900
Age at Arrival: 29y Gender: M Marital Status: M
Ship of Travel: Massilia
Port of Departure: Naples
Manifest Line Number: 0023
http://postimage.org/image/2fwnclois/

Paul
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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Sep 2011, 11:57

Ernesto became a naturalized US citizen on July 14, 1939. He was born September 1, 1871; wife Rosa was born October 12, 1871 - both in Comune di Palma Campania, Provincia di Napoli, Regione di Campania.

Clementina's birth year, given as "15" is more likely meant to be "95", 1895.

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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Sep 2011, 12:01

California Death Index, 1940-1997 about Ernesto Palmese
Name: Ernesto Palmese
Social Security #: 545186743
Sex: Male
Birth Date: 1 Sep 1871
Birthplace: Italy
Death Date: 20 Dec 1960
Death Place: Los Angeles
Mother's Maiden Name: Marcce -- This name does not seem to exist in modern Italy; it is probably misspelled.
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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Sep 2011, 12:05

Ernesto's 1900 passage, travelling with a sister?


New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Ernesto Palmese
Name: Ernesto Palmese
Arrival Date: 16 May 1900
Birth Year: abt 1871
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Massilia

Lines 22 & 23:

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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Sep 2011, 12:12

California Death Index, 1940-1997 about Rose Marie Palmese
Name: Rose Marie Palmese
[Rose Marie Cassesse]
Social Security #: 545141597
Sex: Female
Birth Date: 18 Oct 1870
Birthplace: Other Country
Death Date: 21 Mar 1953
Death Place: Los Angeles
Father's Surname: Cassesse
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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Sep 2011, 12:18

Daughter Quintina naturalized on her own, after marriage:

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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Sep 2011, 12:24

Rosa and three children arrived December 17, 1900. The initial "M" in "M Rosa" indicates her full name was Maria Rosa Cassesse:


New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about M Rosa Capose
Name: M Rosa Capose (mis-transcribed)
Arrival Date: 17 Dec 1900
Birth Year: abt 1877
Age: 23 (mis-transcribed)
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian
Port of Departure: Naples, Italy
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Victoria

Lines 26 - 29:

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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby Paolo47 » 02 Sep 2011, 12:34

Ernesto's 1900 passage, travelling with a sister?


Your right Carmine. Going to visit Uncle.
1900 census, living with the Basileo family, but both claim to be single??
http://postimage.org/image/1ioo7fdhg/
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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Sep 2011, 12:48

If interested, you can write to Palma Campania to request Ernesto and Rosa's birth and marriage certificates. They are nearly always provided free of charge.

The address would be:

Ufficio dello Stato Civile
Comune di Palma Campania
Via Municipio 80
80036 Palm Campania NA
ITALY

You can use the form letter generator found at http://www.circolocalabrese.org/resources/letters/statocivile.asp or try this template which works well for me:


02 settembre 2011 [month names in italian are written lower case]

[your name]
[your address]

STATI UNITI D'AMERICA - USA


Ufficio dello Stato Civile
Comune di Palma Campania
Via Municipio 80
80036 Palm Campania NA
ITALY

Egregi Signori,

Mi chiamo [your name here], ed abito negli Stati Uniti all'indirizzo sopradetto.

Vi scrivo affinché mi aiutiate a reperire:

* Copia integrale dell'atto di Nascita
* Copia integrale dell'atto di Matrimonio

per il mio bisnonni:

* PALMESE ERNESTO nato nel Comune di Palma Campania, in data 01 settembre 1871, paternità [his father's given name if you know it else 'incerto'], maternità [mother's full or partial maiden name if you know it "SMITH JANE" else 'incerto']

* CASSESSE MARIA ROSA nato nel Comune di Palma Campania, in data 12 ottobre 1871, paternità [her father's given name if you know it else 'incerto'], maternità [mother's full or partial maiden name if you know it "SMITH JANE" else 'incerto']

* Celebrato lo matrimonio nel Comune di Palma Campania in data 02 luglio 1891


Vi prego di farmi sapere quanto dovuto per il servizio e per i costi di spedizione.

Distinti saluti,

[your signature]




Birth/marriage/death photocopies of original registry pages are called: Copia integrale dell'atto di Nascita/Matrimonio/Morte. These are more difficult to read but contain lots of additional useful information compared to...

Birth/marriage/death computer-generated (sometimes hand-written) extracts are: Estratto Per Riassunto Per Atto Di Nascita/Matrimonio/Morte

Most comuni do not charge for these documents. Do send a large, self-addressed (but not stamped) envelope if possible; be sure to put "STATI UNITI D'AMERICA - USA" in the final line of your address. It is also a good idea to include a copy of your ID (driver's license, for example) as some comuni will not process requests without it.
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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Sep 2011, 12:54

The Italian telephone directory currently lists two Palmese's (both Giuseppe) in Palm Campania - http://www.paginebianche.it/execute.cgi?ts=103&&l=en&qs=palmese&dv=Palma%20Campania&of=60450&btt=1&om=0

There are no Cassesse's but 29 Cassese's - http://www.paginebianche.it/execute.cgi?ts=103&&l=en&qs=cassese&dv=Palma%20Campania&of=60450&btt=1&om=0. This is a good indication that the four-s spelling (Cassesse) is incorrect.
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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Sep 2011, 13:21

U.S. World War II Army Enlistment Records, 1938-1946 about Phillip Palmese
Name: Phillip Palmese
Birth Year: 1916
Race: White, Citizen (White)
Nativity State or Country: New York
State of Residence: California
County or City: Los Angeles

Enlistment Date: 1 May 1942
Enlistment State: California
Enlistment City: Los Angeles
Branch: Branch Immaterial - Warrant Officers, USA
Branch Code: Branch Immaterial - Warrant Officers, USA
Grade: Private
Grade Code: Private
Term of Enlistment: Enlistment for the duration of the War or other emergency, plus six months, subject to the discretion of the President or otherwise according to law
Component: Army of the United States - includes the following: Voluntary enlistments effective December 8, 1941 and thereafter; One year enlistments of National Guardsman whose State enlistment expires while in the Federal Service; Officers appointed in the Army of
Source: Civil Life

Education: 1 year of college
Civil Occupation: Accountants and auditors
Marital Status: Single, without dependents
Height: 66
Weight: 151
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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Sep 2011, 13:29

The 1930 census:

Notice that it says both Ernesto and Rosa have been in the US since 1920. This agrees with Ernesto's naturalization petition which says that he has lived continuously in the US since July, 1920. Taken together, these are indicative of the fact that Ernesto and Rose left the US at some point after their initial emigration and returned in 1920. They may have been gone for days, weeks, or years...

1930 United States Federal Census about Philip Palmese
Name: Philip Palmese
Home in 1930: Los Angeles, Los Angeles, California
View Map
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1917
Relation to Head of House: Son
Father's Name: Ernest Palmese
Mother's Name: Rose Palmese
Race: White
Household Members: Name Age
Ernest Palmese 59
Rose Palmese 59
Thresa Palmese 25
Rose Palmese 20
Venice Palmese 17
Flori Palmese 15
Philip Palmese 13

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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Sep 2011, 13:39

johnnyonthespot wrote:Notice that it says both Ernesto and Rosa have been in the US since 1920. This agrees with Ernesto's naturalization petition which says that he has lived continuously in the US since July, 1920. Taken together, these are indicative of the fact that Ernesto and Rose left the US at some point after their initial emigration and returned in 1920. They may have been gone for days, weeks, or years...


I don't see a 1920 census meaning they were possibly outside the US when it was taken in April of that year.


1910 census:

1910 United States Federal Census about Ernest Palmessi
Name: Ernest Palmessi
Age in 1910: 40
Estimated Birth Year: 1870
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
[Self (Head)]
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Spouse's Name: Rose Palmessi
Home in 1910: Brooklyn Ward 14, Kings, New York
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Gender: Male
Year of immigration: 1900
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ernest Palmessi 40
Rose Palmessi 40
Julia Palmessi 18
Emma Palmessi 16
Mamie Palmessi 14
Raymond Palmessi 10
Theresa Palmessi 7
Willie Palmessi 3
Ernest Palmessi 1 6/12 (means 1 year, 6 months)

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Re: Ernesto Palmese (Palma Campania, Italy)

Postby johnnyonthespot » 02 Sep 2011, 14:10

Ernesto's 1921 Declaration of Intent:

U.S. Naturalization Records - Original Documents, 1795-1972 (World Archives Project) about Ernesto Palmese
Name: Ernesto Palmese
Age: 49
Birth Date: 1 Sep 1871
Birth Location: Italy
Spouse: Rose
Arrival Year: 1900
Issue Date: 13 Jul 1921
State: California
Locality, Court: Southern District, Central Division, Los Angeles, California, District Court
Record Type: Certificate of Naturalization

Image

These were only good for three years, if I recall correctly, and thus this would have expired long before Ernesto's eventual petition which was filed in 1939.
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