STUCK....

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fusedglass
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STUCK....

Postby fusedglass » 12 Sep 2011, 03:11

hello again: i'm having a really difficult time sorting out my great grandparents. I was told that Pericle Pellegrini, born Piacenze 1873. married Isaura Galletti, born 1875 Italy or NY. But it seems that there is a Paul Paris, born Pisa 1873 married to Isaura Galletti. My whole family knew the name Paolo Parisi (americanized Paul Paris) and HIS father was Pietro Parisi, born Pisa. WHO IS PERICLE PELLEGRINI born in Piacenza, please? Both Pellegrini AND Paris's mother's maiden name is BERTONI. If they are the same person, where does Piacenza come in and such a huge name change...please help... grazie. carla

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Re: STUCK....

Postby Essgee » 12 Sep 2011, 06:28

They could be one and the same...and someone made an error on the town origins. Your biggest problem is that you are fretting over things you "have heard" but without the actual facts to back it all up. It is hard sometimes to make sense of it all.

But you must start with absolute fact. Nothing else will do. SO you need to find your grandmothers actual birth record....think Laura posted the info for you before...and request it. Stories are good, but sometimes people remember thngs differently. So you need the facts. Anything that get you closer to the facts is preferable to theories of what name was he born with

If Paul Parisi had children after the death of Isaura, track them down. See what those kids or grandkids know. Some might still be alive. Call and talk to them. Then attempt to verify the informaiton.

NOthing is known for sure until you have the info. Names changed in an attempt to Americanize them, So the why of it may not by known until you find something that takes you from A to B. Don't get frustruated. Some times it takes a very long time to sort it out. Have patience. It can be solved.

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pink67
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Re: STUCK....

Postby pink67 » 12 Sep 2011, 08:28

I totally agree with member Essge :D (Thank you...)

You now need to obtain proof requesting original birth or marriage or death records...

this is the link to your previous post, just to not duplicate efforts:

http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/topic23068-15.html#p168534

There's a tree (public) on Ancestry.com (named SchnelbachFamilyTree_v9 ) it list Pericle Pellegrini born in Piacenza on 1873, married with Isaura Galletti in Manhattan on 1897, having two child with her, Velia Pellegrini on 1897 and Attilio "Edward" Pellegrini born on 1853 dead on 1958.
Pericle died on 1948.
His parents are listed as:
Pietro Pellegrini (Pisa 1837-1887)
Orsolina Bertoni (1848-1914)

there are also listed Pericle's siblings:

Chiara Pellegrini (1877-1877)
Guido Pellegrini (1881 - )
Bianca (Blanche) Margherita Pellegrini (1885 -1967)

Looks like the owner of this tree did a great research about his/her family history, You should try to contact this person...

As you can see Pericle's father Pietro's place of birth is Pisa. Again I believe that Pericle is the Paul Paris you're searching for...

link to the tree on Ancestry.com:
http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/25936195/person/1744926629

Laura

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Re: STUCK....

Postby fusedglass » 12 Sep 2011, 10:07

thank you.....i looked extensively at the SchnelbackFamilyTree and wrote to the owner. I appreciate the time everyone has given to me. I have been doing research and following leads for weeks and am pretty methodical. On Paul Paris' 1924 passport, it stated his father was Peter Parisi (not Pietro Pellegrini) born in Pisa, so that is one reason this search is challenging. carla

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Re: STUCK....

Postby pink67 » 12 Sep 2011, 14:57

Then, your next step is to request the birth acts for Velia Pellegrini and Attilio Pellegrini:

from your previous post:

Pink67 wrote:from the site Ancestry.com the birth dates of Velia:

New York City Births, 1891-1902

Name: Veglia Pellegrini
Birth Date: 14 Dec 1897
Birth Place: New York, New York
Certificate Number: 52441

Laura


These are the birth certificate details for Attilio from the site Italiagen.org :

Pellegrini Atilli
Date of birth: Sep 15 1903
Certificate number: 41582
County: Manhattan

So you'll be 100% sure the their father was Pericle and mother Isaura...
This is the proper link:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/vi ... irth.shtml

Or, if you don't want to officially request the documents you can contact your nearest Family History center (Mormons) and ask them to rent this microfilm:

Title Manhattan birth certificates, 1866-1897; birth index cards, 1866- 1897
Authors New York (New York). Department of Health (Main Author)

Birth certificates no. 51676-54089
1897
FHL US/CAN Film 1322364

You'll be able to find by yourself and read Velia's birth certificate...

link to find your nearest FHC:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library ... et_fhc.asp

Laura

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pink67
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Re: STUCK....

Postby pink67 » 12 Sep 2011, 15:47

married Isaura Galletti, born 1875 Italy or NY.


From you previous post the 1890 NY Arrival manifest for Isaura (age 14), travelling with her mother Oliva (age 44) and siblings Guglielmo (age 11) Luigi (age 9) and Soave? (age 5):

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957

Name: Oliva Galletti
Arrival Date: 20 Oct 1890
Birth Year: abt 1846
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: Italian
Place of Origin: Italy
Port of Departure: Le Havre, France
Destination: New York
Port of Arrival: New York
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States
Ship Name: La Bourgogne
Search Ship Database:
Search the La Bourgogne in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database

image here:
http://postimage.org/image/33dupma04/ù

You can be pretty sure that Isaura wasn't born in NY...

Have you seen the 1900 census for the Galletti Family?
From Ancestry.com:

1900 United States Federal Census

Name: Frank Gillatti
Home in 1900: Manhattan, New York, New York [New York, New York]
Age: 54
Birth Date: Jun 1845
Birthplace: Italy
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1887
Relationship to head-of-house: Head
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Spouse's Name: Oliva Gillatti
Marriage year: 1874
Marital Status: Married
Years married: 26
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Frank Gillatti 54 head, born in Italy on June 1845, Naturalized
Oliva Gillatti 54 wife, born in Italy on November 1845, immigr. year 1891
Suadi Gillatti 15 daughter, born in Italy on April 1885, immigr. year 1891
Ricco Gillatti 3/12 son, born in NY on February 1900
Louis Gillatti 18 son, born in France on August 1881, immigr. year 1891, occupation sculptor
William Gillatti 20, son, born in Italy on December 1879, immigr. year 1891, occupation artist

Address was 498, west Broadway

image:
http://postimage.org/image/33ijefodg/

Considering that Oliva and Frank stated they got marriage on 1874 we can presume that Isaura was their first child, possibly born in Italy (considering that her brother William/Guglielmo was born in Italy on 1879 )

Laura

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Re: STUCK....

Postby fusedglass » 12 Sep 2011, 19:07

I have sent for the birth certificates of Veglia Pellegrini and Attilio. Thank you Laura for the 1900 Census information. Under Household Members, there is no Isaura listed. As she was born 1875 and was 14 on the 1890 NY arrival (Oliva 44), SUADI GILLATTI born April 1885 is probably SOAVE GALLETTI, born 4/28/1885 Italy. My guess is that Isaura was out of the house, as she married 3/20/1897. grazie. carla

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Re: STUCK....

Postby pichu2001 » 13 Sep 2011, 00:16

I don't know if you already find them, but i post my little research doing on your family.
On Familysearch I found:
1)A daughter of Pietro Pellegrini and Orsolina Bertoni, Bianca, who married Salvatore De Mayo(Demaio) in Manhattan, 22 Jul 1906
2)Two brother of Isaura Galletto
a)Soave Galletti, married Charles Bergui in Manhattan, 03 Sep 1901
b)William Galletti, married Ricca Specia in Manhattan, 10 0ct 1898
I wish this can help you.

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Re: STUCK....

Postby fusedglass » 13 Sep 2011, 17:36

grazie....every bit of new information strengthens the strand. If the Pellegrini family is indeed the Parisi/Paris family, and it looks like that is the case, what a tale! I believe the Consulate has very strict rules on name, spelling and date contradictions (dual citizenship) but for now, my family is getting closer. Grazie....

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Re: STUCK....

Postby pichu2001 » 13 Sep 2011, 23:02

I found some interesting thing in Familysearch.
Seemed that an Orsolina Bertoni Paris, born in Italy on 21 oct 1848 dead in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada on 21 Jan 1914 at 65y and 3m. Is widowed at the date of the death.
Maybe is the Paul Paris's mother?
We have also in Manhattan 1905 Census an Orsola Pellegrini(56 y), with two sons: Bianca(20y) and Guido(23y). Bianca and Orsola maybe arrived in America the same year (12 Jan 1903 departing from Piacenza), while Guido arrived only in 1904(he declared 10m)
Maybe there's two Orsola, but i need to make a more deep research to know if is true (i hope to find a solution, i can't promise).
Now i'm going to continue a little to search, maybe i can find some other things.

Edit 23:54
I found maybe something important.
Guido Pellegrini emigrated onto 17 mar 1905, from Pisa(but last residence is Firenze),and he declared to have a brother called Pericle.

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Re: STUCK....

Postby pichu2001 » 14 Sep 2011, 00:24

Sorry for double post.
I found now some other information of Soave Galletti.
If you remember Soave Galletti married Charles Bergui in 1901. They had a son, Edward Bergui, borrn on 1903.
On 1904, Soave married Harry C Allaire, and on 1905 they had a son, Rudolph Allaire.
So in 1930 Census we can find all the family, Soave with his new husband and son, his older son and the mother, Oliva Galletti.
For now i stop my research, I'm little tired.
I hope my research will useful for your work.

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Re: STUCK....

Postby fusedglass » 14 Sep 2011, 01:32

dear pichu.....many thanks to you for taking time and helping me; that is kind of you. Your research is very useful to me. grazie. carla

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Re: STUCK....

Postby pink67 » 14 Sep 2011, 15:30

Carla,this is the 1900 for Isaura her husband Pericle and daughter Velia:

from Ancestry.com:

1900 United States Federal Census

Name: Pellegrin Perceclle [Pellegrin Peneclle]
Home in 1900: Manhattan, New York, New York [New York, New York]
Age: 26
Birth Date: Oct 1873
Birthplace: Italy
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1895
Relationship to head-of-house: Head
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Spouse's Name: Lizzie Perceclle
Marriage year: 1896
Marital Status: Married
Years married: 4
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Pellegrin Perceclle 26, head, born in Italy on october 1873, married since 4 years, immigration year 1895, alien, occupation artificial marble...
Lizzie Perceclle 23, wife, born in Italy on may 1877, married since 4 years, mother of two children among whom only one living, immigration year 1882
Viola Perceclle 2 , daughter, born in NY on december 1897

address was 1211 First Avenue, Manhattan

Laura

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Re: STUCK....

Postby pink67 » 14 Sep 2011, 15:38

Possible 1895 arrival manifest for Pericle, unfortunately, being an early arrival manifest no place of origin is listed, just Italy...

2 september 1895

Pericle Pellegrini, age 22, male , single, final destination New York, occupation clerk

image:
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0615

Laura

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Re: STUCK....

Postby pink67 » 14 Sep 2011, 19:32

From the site Familysearch.org the 1905 New York Census showing Orsola Pellegrini (Pericle's mother) living with son Guido (age 23, born in Italy) and daughter Bianca (age 20 born in Italy).
Orsola Stated that she was in the U.S. since 2 years and 6 months, same for her daughter Bianca while Guido Pellegrini was living in the U.S. since 10 months. Address was West Houston Street, Manhattan

Image here:
https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3 ... cc=1463113

Laura


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