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Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferiore?

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Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferiore?

Postby mtart » 10 Jan 2012, 05:20

Hello All! :D

I've been working on a family genealogy for the past few months and have hit a (small? big?) wall on the Italian end.

My grandfather always maintained that our family, Tartaglione, came from Naples @ 1906. And indeed, I have records of a passenger sailing out of Napoli, matching the name
and age of my great-grand father (GGF). But that ship manifest lists the last residence as Nocera Inferiore? The handwriting is not absolutely clear.

See Link for ship manifest, Giovanni Tartaglione (GGF) is on line 27: http://www.flickr.com/photos/73992436@N04/6670773751/
Screencapped closer here: http://i.imgur.com/5OaeM.jpg

However, even if Nocera Inferiore was his last residence that does not absolutely mean he was born there.

----

Also, the parental names on my GGF's marriage license are somewhat hard to decipher: http://i.imgur.com/Aq3Iv.jpg

I asked a professor friend about the above image and he said the maiden name, no matter what it may look like, was meant to be Fiumegranofi for "River" Granofi in Italian.

Does anyone have any familiarity with this surname or its origins?

I've searched available vital records online through [ancestry.it] for Campania and cannot find any record of such a surname/maiden name.

----

As for Tartagliones, from what I understand, most Tartagliones come from Marcianise. I also have found a pocket of Tartagliones in Nicola.
None of them seemingly connected. At least so far.

My grandfather's brother's daughter says, for some reason, she remembers something about the family coming from Sorrento.

Also, another obvious problem in researching a name like Tartaglione is that it ends up misspelled/mis-transcribed as: Tart, Tartag, Tartaglia, Tartaglioni, Tartoglione, Tortiglioni, etc. And to be truthful I once found the totally atrocious and absolutely on par with 3rd grade humor-- Fartaglione. I laughed and then thought of my grandfather rolling over in his grave. :lol:

----

And, just for added amusement, there is another Giovanni Tartaglione born a year or two later who also married a wife by the name of Anna, and had children named Pietro and Andreo! :shock:
But, they lived in Brooklyn and are *not* the same family -- no matter how many times research librarians have tried to convince me otherwise! 8)

My branch of Tartagliones begin their Italian-American story in Newark.
And I am sure of this, as the children's birth dates of the duplicate Brooklyn family do not match that of my own.
And I have all stateside records from New Jersey (children's b-certs, parent's d-certs, marriage licenses, etc.)

Sadly, since my mother was quite old when I was born, my grandfather was quite old and ill with Alzheimer's for most of my adult life.
So, by the time I thought to ask him questions -- the answers came confused or not at all. Much beloved he passed in 2010.

In terms of info I have, here are my knowns:

------------------------------------------------------
GIOVANNI TARTAGLIONE [AGE 37] TO ANNA PETROSINO [AGE 25]
Giovanni's Date of Birth: 27 Mar. 1879
Place of Marriage: Newark, Essex County, NJ
Date of Marriage: 8 Dec. 1916

Child: Pietro Tartaglione
Date of Birth: 30 Sept. 1917
Place of Birth: 380 Chestnut St., Newark, NJ
Parents: Giovanni Tartaglione & Anna Petrosino

Child: Andreo Tartaglione
Date of Birth: July 24, 1919
Place of Birth: 46 NICHOLS ST. ** Newark, NJ
Parents: Giovanni Tartaglione & Anna Petrosino

DEATH RECORD:
Deceased: Giovanni Tartaglione
Date of Death: 5 Nov. 1927
Place of Death: Newark, Essex County
Wife: Anna Petrosino
Burial: Holy Cross Cem.

-------------------------------------------------------


Here are my unknowns/what I seek to know:

*What town was Giovanni born in?
*How do I locate/find/retrieve his birth certificate?


*And from there, possible living relatives?


If anyone could give me a bit of help with this or even a gentle nudge in the right direction to head next -- I would be ever so appreciative.

Best and many thanks!

Mel Tartaglione
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Re: Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferior

Postby pink67 » 10 Jan 2012, 13:57

Hi :D

Just for references the 1920 census from Ancestry.com (lastname was mispelled):

1920 United States Federal Census

Name: John Pertelona
Age: 35
Birth Year: abt 1885
Birthplace: Italy
Home in 1920: Newark Ward 5, Essex, New Jersey
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1907
Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
[Head]
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Anna Pertelona
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Home Owned: Own
Able to Read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Pertelona 35
Anna Pertelona 28
Louise Pertelona 7
Peter Pertelona 2
Andrew Pertelona 0
[5/12]

address was 46 Nichols Street - newark NJ

link to the image on Ancestry.com:
http://search.ancestry.com/iexec?htx=Vi ... d=18477909

Laura
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Re: Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferior

Postby PippoM » 10 Jan 2012, 14:24

The name of town of residence seems definitely to be Nocera Inf(eriore). If you could read his cousin's name, it could be one more clue.
As to GGmother's surnames, paternal is evidently misspelled, but I really couldn't say what it could originally be. Maternal could be Stanzione ("t" is missing). Both Petrosino and Stanzione are common surnames in Nocera area.
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Re: Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferior

Postby PippoM » 10 Jan 2012, 14:32

Just a guess, based on how a southern Italian of the time might have told a name (never read?) his dialectal way, and how an American clerk might have understood it:
Maria Filomena Granozi or Granozio (this surnam is also present in the area).
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Re: Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferior

Postby pink67 » 10 Jan 2012, 17:15

Mel,
I'm not 100% sure that this record is concerning your ancestors, but in the doubt I'll post it for you:

23 february 1912

Petrosino Luigi, age 21, male single, place of birth and last residence in Italy Nocera Inferiore (Salerno Province - Campania region) going to Newark to join his uncle Emiddio? Stazione (this last name sounds similar to Anna's mother's maiden name) nearest relative in Italy his father Andrea in Nocera Inferiore.

page 1:
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0008

page 2:
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0008

Considerindg that another son was listed on the 1920 census (Louis Tartaglione born on approx. 1913) is it possible that Giovanni was a widower at the time of his marriage with Anna?

I noticed also that on the 1906 arrival manifest that you pointed us Giovanni Tartaglione was listed as Married....

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Re: Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferior

Postby uantiti » 10 Jan 2012, 17:41

The cousin's name, in the ship manifest that you posted, looks PICERNO MICHELE.
Many times people would say they were from a big town instead of a small one that none knows. According to a search engine there are about 15 Tartagliones in Nocera Inferiore. Why don't you try and ask for a birth or marriage act or any other detail from the City Hall? If nothing else you will see if your ancestor was from Nocera Inferiore or not.

Try and send an e-mail here: anna.russo@comune.nocera-inferiore.sa.it
The officer in charge is Mrs Anna Russo.

You can use form letters as shown on this site:

http://www.circolocalabrese.org/resourc ... civile.asp


Good luck

Ada
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Re: Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferior

Postby pink67 » 10 Jan 2012, 17:42

Possible 1912 arrival manifest for Anna Petrosino (real first name was Marianna)

23 july 1912

Petrosino Marianna, age 23, single, female, place of last residence in Italy Nocera Inferiore, nearest relative in Italy her father Andrea in Nocera, going to Newark? to joing her uncle Emiddio Stanzione :!: . Place of birth Nocera Inferiore.

page 1:
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0003

page 2:
http://www.ellisisland.org/EIFile/popup ... &line=0003

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Re: Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferior

Postby PippoM » 10 Jan 2012, 18:03

Ada, ti chiedo scusa, ma dove hai trovato quel riferimento per il comune di Nocera?
Io ci sono stato diverse volte; allo storico dello stato civile non c'è nessuna Anna Russo, e mi hanno detto che non usano le e-mail (per quanto questo possa essere sconvolgente al giorno d'oggi). Infatti, ho i miei problemi...
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Re: Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferior

Postby uantiti » 10 Jan 2012, 18:27

PippoM wrote:Ada, ti chiedo scusa, ma dove hai trovato quel riferimento per il comune di Nocera?
Io ci sono stato diverse volte; allo storico dello stato civile non c'è nessuna Anna Russo, e mi hanno detto che non usano le e-mail (per quanto questo possa essere sconvolgente al giorno d'oggi). Infatti, ho i miei problemi...


Ma, io l'ho preso dal sito ufficiale del comune, se poi scrivono delle cose che non corrispondono al vero è un altro discorso. Questa signora è classificata come Funzionario Ammnistrativo, ti metto il link diretto della pagina dove ci sono anche i link per i vari uffici. http://www.comune.nocera-inferiore.sa.i ... l?stile=HC

Ho messo la sua e-mail perchè non sapevo se usare quella dell'ufficio stato civile o dell'archivio stato civile. Ho pensato che la signora avrebbe deciso a chi girare la richiesta. In teoria la cosa dovrebbe funzionare, sennò che senso ha scrivere tutti quegli indirizzi di e-mail e i nomi dei veri responsabili? In pratica .... :cry:
però tanto vale provare, no?

Ciao
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Re: Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferior

Postby mtart » 11 Jan 2012, 00:30

pink67 wrote:Considerindg that another son was listed on the 1920 census (Louis Tartaglione born on approx. 1913) is it possible that Giovanni was a widower at the time of his marriage with Anna?

I noticed also that on the 1906 arrival manifest that you pointed us Giovanni Tartaglione was listed as Married....

Laura


Ah, yes, there is a small mystery of Lou. Lou was the half brother of my GF Pietro. We don't know much about him. If he was born in Italy or Newark to Anna and another father or if he was Gio's kid from another marriage that had been sent over with family. When Gio died Anna sent Lou away to live/work on a farm in CT. So, he was raised apart from the family and only seen once more in my GF's lifetime. I don't have Lou's b-cert(or any other document), I don't even know which last name he used. My GF did say that Gio had been married before. Whether that meant he left his wife in Italy and found an extra one in America or, that he was a widower, we do not know. My grandfathers comments on it were "We did not ask that kind of question of our parents." Especially since Gio died when my GF was relatively young.

Thank you so much for all of your help. To everyone else on this board as well: Grazie Mille! I will try writing Nocera. How long should I theoretically wait for a response before before I board a plane? :lol:
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Re: Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferior

Postby pink67 » 11 Jan 2012, 10:25

mtart wrote: If he was born in Italy or Newark to Anna and another father or if he was Gio's kid from another marriage that had been sent over with family.


We're happy to help here!

From the 1920 census manifest you can see that Louis Tartaglione was 7 years old, so born on approx 1913 , place of birth was New Jersey...

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Re: Tartaglione of: Campania/Napoli/Sorrento/Nocera Inferior

Postby Pete Tartaglione » 27 Jun 2013, 00:59

In response to pink Louis Tartaglione is my grandfather. My father just confirmed he was born in 1913. Lou mothers name was Anna apparently my father said Anna husband died trying to break up a fight and she remarried. Papi Lou as we called him married my grandma and had 18 kids one of which was my father Peter. I was always told we were from Naples
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