Question About Italian Naming Patterns

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heggar
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Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby heggar » 25 Feb 2012, 03:25

I have a question concerning Italian naming patterns.

While doing research on my 2x great grandfather Giuseppe Lacovara (son of Antonio & Clementina from San Mauro Forte, Matera, Basilicata), I ran across a 2nd Giuseppe Lacovara who appears to be from the same generation. Both Giuseppes were in the medical profession and both had daughters named Clementine (Clementina/Clemenza) which was not a common name.

At first I thought that these Giuseppes were actually the same person; then I noticed their wives’ names were different. (It’s always possible Giuseppe was married twice, however according to information from his granddaughter, there was only one wife.)

Considering traditional Italian naming patterns, plus the various similarities between the 2 Giuseppes, is it safe to assume they were probably either 1st or 2nd cousins? Thank you.

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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby DebiHarbuck » 25 Feb 2012, 03:56

I think the fact that two men of similar age and profession in the same town share a first & last name is a good clue that they are related. It is possible they share a grandfather, Giuseppe, for whom they are both named.

Your Clementine is named for her grandmother; we cannot know from the information you have so far who the second Clementine is named for.

It certainly bears watching that second Giuseppe & Clementine as you move through that town's records, but - in genealogy - we can assume nothing. It tangles branches and makes for weak trees. :)
Roccanova/Magistra/Rubertone/Paduano of Craco, Matera, Basilicata AND Latorraca/Cassino/Petrocelli/Peluso of Saponara di Grumento (now Grumento Nova) & Moliterno, Potenza, Basilicata

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heggar
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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby heggar » 25 Feb 2012, 04:03

DebiHarbuck;

Thank you so much for the prompt reply. I'm going to send a request for records of the 2 Giuseppes to the mayor of San Mauro Forte (I believe that is the best procedure). Hopefully, this will help solve the mystery!

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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby adelfio » 25 Feb 2012, 13:30

Got a question for you.Why would write to Italy for records? Do you know there are records on film for San Mauro Forte (Matera), 1810-1929 Civil registration (deaths, births, marriage documents, banns, miscellaneous documents, supplements) for San Mauro Forte, Matera, Italy. Includes partial indexes. From Family History Library
click on prompt
https://www.familysearch.org/locations

Marty
Researching Trabia, Palermo surnames Adelfio, Bondi, Butera, Scardino,Rinella, Scardamaglia

Marty

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heggar
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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby heggar » 25 Feb 2012, 15:39

Hello Marty;

Thank you for your reply. I went to the main branch of the Family History Library in Salt Lake City, Utah. It's a wonderful place! I found valuable information in the San Mauro Forte civil marriage records.

Unfortunately I was unable to find complete information on particular individuals. Perhaps the info was there and I missed it somehow?

It took a long time to go through those reels. It might be more productive to make a list of everything I was unable to find at the library, and send directly to San Mauro Forte for it.

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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby DebiHarbuck » 25 Feb 2012, 15:44

The town is a) probably going to take a long time to respond and b) is most likely not going to do a general search for you. You will have to ask for specific (names & dates) documents. They won't do the research for you. And, yes, it does take time, a lot of time, to piece together all the information about an individual. There is no one document in San Mauro Forte that has all the information on it...
Roccanova/Magistra/Rubertone/Paduano of Craco, Matera, Basilicata AND Latorraca/Cassino/Petrocelli/Peluso of Saponara di Grumento (now Grumento Nova) & Moliterno, Potenza, Basilicata

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heggar
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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby heggar » 25 Feb 2012, 15:59

Thank you DebiHarbuck;

Yes, I do have a list of specific names with approximate dates. My cousin wrote to the mayor of San Mauro Forte (in English!) and surprisingly, she received all the records she requested.

Have you ever looked at the microfilm reels for San Mauro Forte, and if so, were you able to find birth certificates? I had no trouble finding marriage records, but somehow I found birth records more difficult to locate.

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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby DebiHarbuck » 25 Feb 2012, 16:04

I have no family that I know of in San Mauro Forte, but am currently working in the records of Vietri di Potenza. And, I suppose our experiences are different. I find the birth records as easy (or not :) ) to navigate as any other.

As to the other, I will say that you are lucky, if you prefer not to do the research, to have found another way.

Continued good luck to you!
Roccanova/Magistra/Rubertone/Paduano of Craco, Matera, Basilicata AND Latorraca/Cassino/Petrocelli/Peluso of Saponara di Grumento (now Grumento Nova) & Moliterno, Potenza, Basilicata

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heggar
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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby heggar » 25 Feb 2012, 16:22

Debi:

Are the birth records for your town on separate reels from the marriage records? A genealogist at the Utah Family History libaray told me to look at the following reels:

Pubblicazioni 1810-1864 - FHL INTL Film [1743163 Items 2-5]
Pubblicazioni 1864-1900 - Processetti 1811 1831-1835-INT Film [1743164]

I found mainly marriage records there. Should I be looking elsewhere (other than the Pubblicazioni) for birth certificates?

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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby DebiHarbuck » 25 Feb 2012, 16:29

I am fortunate that many of the records from comunes in Potenza have been digitized and made available online. There, the records are presented as Atti di Nascite (Birth Acts), usually with an index available, so that one can search fairly easily. There is no FHC library in my town, so I have not worked with these records on film...only on the computer.

Another member here (Marty?) may be able to answer your question.
Roccanova/Magistra/Rubertone/Paduano of Craco, Matera, Basilicata AND Latorraca/Cassino/Petrocelli/Peluso of Saponara di Grumento (now Grumento Nova) & Moliterno, Potenza, Basilicata

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heggar
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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby heggar » 25 Feb 2012, 17:15

Debi; Thanks so much for all of your responses! Maybe I'll post a separate question on how to find birth records. Good luck with your research!

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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby carmine1917 » 25 Feb 2012, 18:53

Heggar, I have had to order many films to cover my ancestral towns. The records on microfilm are not always in order and often mislabeled. I am looking at the records for your town, there are only 12, I am so envious my towns have so many more films.

The person at the FHL probably told you to order the pubb because marriage records often have more information attached to them, like the bride and grooms birth records, death records if one of their parents are dead.

But this type of film "Processetti" I don't know what this is, adelfio or someone else maybe able to help you.

Yes, the microfilm can take forever to go through, but it is much easier to order the films at your local FHL, than wait for records from Italy.

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heggar
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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby heggar » 25 Feb 2012, 19:27

Micheles;

Thank you; yes I was wondering whether some of the films I viewed could be mislabeled or not in order. A few records seemed incomplete, or were missing altogether. In fact, I was told that many of the records/films from SMF were "water-damaged". That's why I may just have to send to Italy and hope that I get a reply.

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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby MaddalenaNYC » 27 Feb 2012, 02:46

I am not sure if I have this entirely correct but to my knowledge, the usual pattern is as follows:

First son named after paternal grandfather
First daughter named after paternal grandmother
Second son named after maternal grandfather
Second daughter named after maternal grandmother

There after, up for grabs!!!

Usually, third son named after father, however.

It was hit and miss in my family although we did end up with many many Pasquales.

I was able, however, to trace my grandfather's roots owing to the naming of his first child, Pietro, after his, my grandfather's father.

I swore up and down that I would not follow suit when my first son was born (I am married to a Brit) but I did name our first son after my father-in-law, guess you can't take the Italian out of a girl.

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Re: Question About Italian Naming Patterns

Postby JohnArmellino » 27 Feb 2012, 19:38

MaddalenaNYC wrote:Usually, third son named after father, however.


All of my research has been in Southern Italy, pre-1910. In that area and during that time frame, naming a son after his father was rarely done. I have only seen it 3-4 times among tens of thousands of births. There is one exception - if a father died while his wife was expecting a child and that child was a boy, then the child was most often named after his late father.
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