Surname was changed how to find real surname

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Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby Moonlightflower » 12 Apr 2012, 19:36

My cousin died in August of last year. She and I have been doing genealogy on several branches of our tress that are common. However she was stumped on her great grandfather's history. He was born Feb 2, 1859 in Palermo, Providence of Sicily, Italy. He married Alida Blanchard however her first name is spelled three different ways. According to his nationalization papers they came from Italy in 1881 at age 22. However, his wife's papers are dated about 18 years earlier. I don't have that record myself but it is in her family tree.
Her family states that they went to France and crossed over to Canada. They purchased a houseboat and went along the east coast to Louisiana and on to Port Arthur, Texas where they lived on the houseboat on the Inter-coastal Waterway. I've a picture dated 1923-1924. He and Alida are in it with a son a grandson and two great grandchildren.
The primary issue is not only the date of naturalization and when they came to the US but the surname. He changed it for some reason to Cropper.
His family owned a winery in Sicily. The theories are he was dodging the draft which would have been the Franco-Prussian War but Italy was not involved in that. The other theory is he was dodging the Mafia.
DNA testing has been done however autosomal testing was not done. My cousin Wilie ( my cousin's brother) is still alive. He did DNA but the wrong test was done. His DNA is still on file. I am wondering what kind of success can be found doing an autosomal test. That cannot reveal the surname but can narrow down the region(s) the ancestors came from hopefully on the "Cropper" side.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. We are truly stumped. I have taken over where Violet left off.
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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby PippoM » 17 Apr 2012, 14:49

Have you already found records online pertaining to this family?
Giuseppe "Pippo" Moccaldi

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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby adelfio » 17 Apr 2012, 16:16

Possible surname for Simone maybe Croppi can you post his nationalization papers

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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby Tessa78 » 17 Apr 2012, 18:49

For reference purposes :-) Is this the family in Louisiana in 1900 US Census?
Names misspelled :?

1900 United States Federal Census

Name: Seymore Cropper
Age: 46
Birth Date: 1854
Birthplace: Italy
Home in 1900: Police Jury Ward 5, Saint Mary, Louisiana
[St. Mary]
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Allida Cropper
Marriage Year: 1886
Years Married: 14
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Seymore Cropper 46
Allida Cropper 45
Saul Cropper 22
William Cropper 12
Willie Cropper 7
Mary Cropper 1

Wife, Allida, and all the children list their place of birth as Louisiana.
According to the census, Seymore and Allida have been married for 14 years. That would make the eldest son, Saul, a child from a previous marriage - ???
EDIT: According to the 1910 Census, it is Allida who was married before

1900 Census image...
Click once to enlarge and again to magnify...
Image

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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby uantiti » 17 Apr 2012, 19:18

In Palermo, a similar name, could be "CRAPA" but also CRAPISI, CRAPANZANO, CRAPARO

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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby Tessa78 » 17 Apr 2012, 19:34

Thanks to Ada's suggestion, I thought...how about "CRIPPA"... found in Palermo, as well :-)

This may be a POSSIBILITY...
Found this New Orleans arrival for Giuseppe CRIPPA, age 23, in 1881
Leaving Bremen, Germany
Giuseppe lists his country as Italy, his destination is Galveston.
Of course these early manifests don't provide much information :?

I found a death certificate for Simon Cropper in Texas listing his birthdate as February 2, 1858. That would make the age above correct. Year of arrival agrees with your family history.

BTW - if you don't have a copy of the death record... I can post it for you.

Here is the ship manifest for the SS Koln, arriving New Orleans, November 1881.
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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby suanj » 16 Oct 2012, 11:18

I searched in many civil records of Communes in Palermo area: Partinico, Corleone, Bisacquino..and no helpful infos...
I found this immigration record:
New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Simone Cobra
Name: Simone Cobra
Arrival Date: 17 Dec 1881
Birth Year: abt 1859
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race¬/Nationality: Italian
Place of Origin: Italy
Port of departure: Palermo, Italy
Destination: United States of America
Port of arrival: New York
Port Arrival State: New York

Port Arrival Country: United States
Ship Name: Australia


http://search.ancestry.com/iexec?htx=Vi ... d=11753508

I know by Simon Cropper declaration of intent that he arrived in New York on nov 1881.. no ship's name.. but it is hard to think the original surname spelling... in the above immigration record, this Simone, the surname is spelled Cobra.. but I believe mispelled... your suggestions?
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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby montclaire » 16 Oct 2012, 15:56

What do you mean it's "in her tree?" If you are talking about an Ancestry account, then it could certainly be called into question.

Since you already have her GGF's DOB, it may be easier than you think. My experience is that many places kept large docket books to record births, and these were filled in as the births occured. So if you can view the books from his province (Ancestry does have some Italian dockets avail online), and they followed this procedure, simply look to the early part of Feb 1859. Even in areas with many similar first and last names, I think you might have luck seeing as you have the date.
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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby suanj » 16 Oct 2012, 21:07

suanj wrote:I searched in many civil records of Communes in Palermo area: Partinico, Corleone, Bisacquino..and no helpful infos...

sorry, really: church records!
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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby Moonlightflower » 23 Oct 2012, 19:38

All I have about his naturalization is the word from family members. So far I have not found it. This is from the 1910 census in ancestry.com's website:
1910 United States Federal Census about Siman Cropper Name: Siman Cropper
[Simon Cropper]
Age in 1910: 52
Birth Year: 1858
Birthplace: Italy
Home in 1910: Police Jury Ward 2, Saint Mary, Louisiana
Race: Mulatto
[White]
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1880
Relation to Head of House: Head
[Self (Head)]
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Aledia Cropper
Father's Birthplace: Italy
Mother's Birthplace: Italy
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Siman Cropper 52
Aledia Cropper 55
Willie Cropper 17
Mary Cropper 11

Source Citation: Year: 1910; Census Place: Police Jury Ward 2, Saint Mary, Louisiana; Roll: T624_531; Page: 19B; Enumeration District: 0086; Image: 199; FHL microfilm: 1374544.

It appears there has been some research that I have not been aware of. There have not been any notices until today. I am so very grateful. My cousins will most definitely appreciate what has been found so far. Thank you so much.
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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby Moonlightflower » 23 Oct 2012, 21:26

PippoM wrote:Have you already found records online pertaining to this family?

Only his wife.
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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby Moonlightflower » 23 Oct 2012, 21:28

montclaire wrote:What do you mean it's "in her tree?" If you are talking about an Ancestry account, then it could certainly be called into question.

Since you already have her GGF's DOB, it may be easier than you think. My experience is that many places kept large docket books to record births, and these were filled in as the births occured. So if you can view the books from his province (Ancestry does have some Italian dockets avail online), and they followed this procedure, simply look to the early part of Feb 1859. Even in areas with many similar first and last names, I think you might have luck seeing as you have the date.


Yes the information I have comes from her family tree on ancestry's website and what she obtained from his wife's family. Thank you very much.
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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby Moonlightflower » 09 Mar 2014, 11:13

suanj wrote:I searched in many civil records of Communes in Palermo area: Partinico, Corleone, Bisacquino..and no helpful infos...
I found this immigration record:
New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 about Simone Cobra
Name: Simone Cobra
Arrival Date: 17 Dec 1881
Birth Year: abt 1859
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race¬/Nationality: Italian
Place of Origin: Italy
Port of departure: Palermo, Italy
Destination: United States of America
Port of arrival: New York
Port Arrival State: New York

Port Arrival Country: United States
Ship Name: Australia


http://search.ancestry.com/iexec?htx=Vi ... d=11753508

I know by Simon Cropper declaration of intent that he arrived in New York on nov 1881.. no ship's name.. but it is hard to think the original surname spelling... in the above immigration record, this Simone, the surname is spelled Cobra.. but I believe mispelled... your suggestions?
suanj


It has been a long time since I have been here but much has been going on in my life. This is the information I am going to go with. Somebody at the local LDS Family History Center told me to try to get his actual naturalization papers. What I found was his intent. There is conflicting information on it. I might try to get one of his descendants to do that search since I am not descended from him. He was my cousin's grandfather...great or great great.

Thank you so very much for your help. Violet and I believed he changed his name or the spelling of it. This makes sense to me. Much of it fits his profile.

:D
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Re: Surname was changed how to find real surname

Postby Michael31 » 10 Mar 2014, 05:29

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